Leaders and Their Stories

Richard Lowe: Hello. This is Richard Lowe. And you're listening to the leaders and their stories. Podcast.

Richard Lowe: I'm the writing king and ghostwriting, Guru.

Richard Lowe: And I'm here with Rob Finstermaker. Hopefully, I pronounced that right, and he's going to talk about the warrior spirit. So, Rob, take it away.

Rob Fenstermaker: Hey? Well, thank you, Richard. I thank you for this opportunity to come here. Yeah. The warrior spirit, you know. I've always identified myself as a warrior. Well, I shouldn't say all. There was a point in time when I did, and now it's my mission to reignite that warrior spirit in men, and when I kind of go back to that time that I didn't

Rob Fenstermaker: it's when I was

Rob Fenstermaker: firmly ensconced in that corporate existence, I was really wrapped around a 9 to 5 identity. I was doing what I you know what the expectation was. You go to work, show up, get a paycheck, come home

Rob Fenstermaker: provide for the family. But inside, the reason I followed empty is that fire was not there anymore. So I did the hard work on myself and really discovered some things that I needed to do

Rob Fenstermaker: to reignite that fire with that was within me.

Rob Fenstermaker: And after, you know, so many years ago that I've done that. I'm at this stage in my life right now, where I want to give back to other men to help them understand the power that that warrior spirit can have in them to be leaders, you know, in their families, in their communities, in their place of business. And that's where that warrior spirit comes about to me. You know a warrior is never somebody who's out to

Rob Fenstermaker: fight those who are in front of him. A warrior is a man who takes his stand to protect those who are behind him. And that's what I want men to understand.

Richard Lowe: I see now, how do you? How do you

Richard Lowe: achieve this mission? What is your goal? I mean? Not what do you go? How's your process?

Rob Fenstermaker: Well, you have. Yeah.

Rob Fenstermaker: yeah, the process. I think the 1st thing that needs to happen as as a man, you need to understand your truths. I just see too many men. They're just kind of going through the motions of life. They'll just believe something because everybody else believes it. Everybody in my family. Everybody I work with, but I go to church with everybody at the grocery store believes it so I'm going to believe it. I don't want to rock the boat.

Rob Fenstermaker: and for me I always challenge that way of thinking because you've got to be. You gotta be solid. What it is, you know to be true.

Rob Fenstermaker: and when you are, you're able to take that foundation, you're able to take that step upon that firm foundation. That foundation creates everything for your life.

Rob Fenstermaker: because every choice you make, every decision you make is going to rest on that foundation when it's solid. You're making the right choices and right decisions to serve you, your family, your business, your community, serve whatever it is you're wanting to do.

Rob Fenstermaker: So when you work with me. That's 1 of the things we do. We really start digging in deep

Rob Fenstermaker: to what are your troops? What are those things that

Rob Fenstermaker: are non-negotiable to you? You have to know what those are.

Rob Fenstermaker: and as a man it's very vital for you to know what those are, especially a man who.

Rob Fenstermaker: as a family, because it empowers you one to be a better husband to your wife.

Rob Fenstermaker: a more impactful father to your children. So we really unpack what those truths are.

Rob Fenstermaker: and we all have our own personal truths. You know what's true to me may not necessarily be true to you.

Rob Fenstermaker: but you have to know what those truths are in your life.

Rob Fenstermaker: And that's the 1st step that we take. Really spend time digging into that.

Richard Lowe: And you said, Work with you. Is this a paid service that you offer.

Rob Fenstermaker: Yes, it is. Yes, it is so. Clients when I engage with clients I I love to engage them for a minimum. 12 sessions, because I think that's the power of really getting clear on on. You know what what it is you want to do. So yes, what I do for my clients is a paid service so it's an opportunity for my clients to come to me and work with me, and I work with them to bring clarity to what it is they really want out of their life.

Richard Lowe: Well, that sounds like an excellent goal. It's probably gonna make men a lot more

Richard Lowe: person personable, a lot easier to deal with, and a lot.

Rob Fenstermaker: And.

Richard Lowe: But, on the other hand, maybe a lot less easy to deal with, because they'll be more firm about

Richard Lowe: their their boundaries.

Rob Fenstermaker: Well, yeah, you got to have boundaries. I mean, you absolutely had to have boundaries. And you know, when, as a man, when you have a family. Those boundaries are sacred.

Rob Fenstermaker: There's certain things that that a married man, a man with a family should should never boundaries he should never cross, and never allow others to cross those boundaries. So you have to. You have to set up those guardrails and be very intentional about it.

Rob Fenstermaker: and you know. I think one of the things that's most important for a man to set up those boundaries and those those guardrails is he has. He must have other men in his life that hold him accountable.

Rob Fenstermaker: I mean, we all want to be held accountable. And the the truth is, there's always there's only one person we can ever hold accountable, and that's ourselves. We need others to do it for us. We need others to

Rob Fenstermaker: call us out when we're not doing right, or, you know, cheer us on when we're doing great. But that level of accountability, especially men holding other men accountable is powerful. I've had the opportunity to lead different men's groups for probably 30 years.

Rob Fenstermaker: and that was always one of the cornerstones of what we did is we held each other accountable for what we said, what we did, how we conducted ourselves, and how we treated our wives, our children, our friends, how we engaged in our work life, and we would hold each other accountable for things.

Richard Lowe: So what if let's just take a a scenario? What if you know your neighbor is not your not your not really a friend. They're just a neighbor. There's somebody, you know, an acquaintance, I guess they call it, and you find out that he's stepping out on his wife.

Richard Lowe: Would. What would you do in this instance to hold him accountable for that.

Rob Fenstermaker: Yeah, you know, I've I've been in situations like that. And if you don't really have a relation, a, a.

Rob Fenstermaker: the relationship of trust with that individual.

Rob Fenstermaker: It's they're not going to listen. And there's some men that just don't want to be held accountable for what they're going to do. Now. If I saw that if I knew he was doing that, and we had, you know, some kind more than just a hey, how you doing type of relationship. When we're out walking our dogs, I might strike up a conversation with him. I might strike up a conversation and just ask him about that.

Rob Fenstermaker: The impact that something like that would have on his wife or his children.

Richard Lowe: Right, because what if? What if his wife was your friend?

Richard Lowe: He wasn't. But his wife is? Then you got a sticky situation.

Rob Fenstermaker: Yeah, you got a sticky situation. And

Rob Fenstermaker: yeah. So if I had a a female friend come to me that you know

Rob Fenstermaker: trusted me and asked me to do it, and she was a friend. I would do it.

Rob Fenstermaker: I would do it out of.

Richard Lowe: Intervened.

Rob Fenstermaker: Intervene with with the husband. If if she came to me desperate and as a friend, yeah, I would think I think I would owe it to her to that relationship, that that bond that we have to go to the husband because I don't want to see a marriage broken up over something, you know, like that.

Rob Fenstermaker: especially if there's children, because the children are always the one. The children are always going to be the ones that suffer.

Richard Lowe: Yeah. One thing I've learned is, if you catch somebody doing something, it's never the 1st time.

Rob Fenstermaker: I agree. I agree.

Richard Lowe: I agree.

Rob Fenstermaker: I agree? Yeah, I agree.

Richard Lowe: Line. From what's that? Ozark in the 1st episode of Ozark?

Richard Lowe: If you if you catch some of the bookkeepers stealing money, say $10 from the till.

Richard Lowe: What do you do? And the 2 that got killed said, Well, you know I'd give her a chance. Blah blah! And then the one who didn't get killed said I'd

Richard Lowe: It's not the 1st time it's just the 1st time you caught her. Got a fire.

Rob Fenstermaker: Exactly.

Rob Fenstermaker: Yeah, I I agree. You know it always it always. I always have to laugh when you know we, we see these people that have notoriety get caught in something.

Rob Fenstermaker: And what's the 1st thing they always say when they do the press conference? Well, that's not the person I am. Well, yes, it is. That's exactly who you are. That's exactly the person who you are and

Rob Fenstermaker: when when the light gets gets shown on them. Yeah. And you know, it comes down. I guess it.

Rob Fenstermaker: to kind of circle back to the original. It really comes down to a question of integrity, you know. Are you a man of integrity or not? If you're a man of integrity, you're not going to go running around on your wife. If you're a man of integrity you're going to be. You're going to have to have that conversation with your wife.

Rob Fenstermaker: If you know. And if if there's problems with the marriage and have that conversation. But don't go to that level. You know. Be a man of integrity, be a man of principle.

Richard Lowe: Right right? And that's that's getting very rare these days, I think, or rarer than it was.

Rob Fenstermaker: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: Integrity is an interesting thing. It can be interpreted so many ways.

Richard Lowe: But basically it means you've got boundaries. You've got

Richard Lowe: goals. You've got objectives. You've got

Richard Lowe: things you'll do things you won't do.

Richard Lowe: sins, not sins. And you live up to that. That

Richard Lowe: whatever that that ideal is, might not be somebody else's idea.

Rob Fenstermaker: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: You can.

Rob Fenstermaker: Oh, yeah.

Richard Lowe: Perfect.

Rob Fenstermaker: You're right. You're you're yeah. I'm not definitely not far from perfect. But I have my level of integrity. And you what your integrity says that you're you're you're the same person, regardless of the situation.

Rob Fenstermaker: You you live by that creed and that oath that you've given.

Rob Fenstermaker: not when people are looking, but when you're by yourself, so

Rob Fenstermaker: let me give you an example. You know

Rob Fenstermaker: we hear so many men that say I would never cheat on my wife, but a lot of these same men. When no one's looking, they get on their laptop and download porn. Are you cheating on your wife? I think you are. I think you're cheating on your wife and your family. If you're doing something like that.

Richard Lowe: Interesting that that's an interesting point.

Richard Lowe: Dad.

Richard Lowe: Pornography is definitely a sticky, slippery slope, as they call it.

Rob Fenstermaker: It is. Yeah.

Richard Lowe: Because it certainly can lead to other things that aren't.

Rob Fenstermaker: That's really.

Richard Lowe: Yeah. And it certainly causes the mind to start thinking that that's normal.

Richard Lowe: that life, that lifestyle, and that's not normal.

Rob Fenstermaker: No.

Richard Lowe: People don't act that way in real life.

Rob Fenstermaker: Yeah, awesome.

Rob Fenstermaker: If you and your wife have a understanding that she's all right with you. Then, whatever I I'm not going to question that. But if you're doing it

Rob Fenstermaker: in the shadows without wide owing something completely different, that is something completely and totally different.

Richard Lowe: Yeah, yeah. Well, they tend. It tends to. It's like any addiction. It tends to draw you deep. You just keep getting drawn in and drawn in, and deeper and deeper, until

Richard Lowe: I mean, you know, we've all had addictions of one form or another, and no matter what they are, whether it's food or or eating cheetos. They can be a real bitch to get out of.

Rob Fenstermaker: Yeah, your body gets used to it.

Rob Fenstermaker: I agree, I agree. And but you know, the good thing is, you know, we can look back on those those you know addictions or those bad habits we've created. And we can, you know, kind of look back. You know the length of time that it took us to get there.

Rob Fenstermaker: And you're right. It wasn't overnight. It was a gradual progression, you know. It's the saying of, you know, the frog in the boiling water. You know you can put a frog in. If you throw a frog in boiling water it's going to jump right out, but if you put a frog in cool water and turn up the heat till it gets boiling, it's not going to jump out. It's the same situation.

Rob Fenstermaker: But when you recognize that problem.

Rob Fenstermaker: when you recognize that issue, I think you know as a man, a man who's going to embrace integrity.

Rob Fenstermaker: you do what you have to do to get out of it. You can get out of it with intention, with purpose, and that's where accountability comes in.

Rob Fenstermaker: If it's something like pornography, or if it's something like alcohol, or whatever it may be.

Rob Fenstermaker: and you know you have a problem when you have other men in your life that you can share that with to say, Hey, I have this problem because I've had those conversations with men, and I've had my own issues as well that I've had to let other men know about, and that's what a warrior does. He understands? I can't do this on my own. I need other

Rob Fenstermaker: brothers with me to fight this battle. You know Rambo never won a war on his own as much as Hollywood wants to make you think that Rambo won the war on his own. It takes a team. It takes other people around you, other men around you to keep you strong.

Rob Fenstermaker: to, to keep you focused and keep you clear.

Richard Lowe: I would say also part of a managed to be able to differentiate the small stuff from the big stuff.

Richard Lowe: because there's there's lots of things in life. And I'm get finding this more and more as I get older.

Richard Lowe: It's just small stuff. I don't get as mad anymore. I don't get upset anymore.

Richard Lowe: Why, you know, somebody back talks me in the store, you know. Whatever it's like, I'm not gonna go into Karen mode, you know, you need to do that. The the store clerk is a little bit snippety. I don't need to go into Karen Mode, I mean, unless it gets really bad.

Richard Lowe: because it's small stuff. Yeah.

Rob Fenstermaker: It is. You know what I do in those situations. Just kill them with kindness. Just kill them with kindness, you know, if they're going to be jerks to you, just kill them with kindness. And most people realize, I guess maybe I was being a little jerky there when you do it. I think a lot of times they'll apologize.

Rob Fenstermaker: or if it's chronic, you report them to the right people, get them handled.

Richard Lowe: There's there's some sometimes where it's just a bad, you know, not a not a good person in that place, and.

Rob Fenstermaker: Okay.

Richard Lowe: You gotta do.

Richard Lowe: I grab?

Richard Lowe: Got it? That's a that's part.

Rob Fenstermaker: But you know I I have. I have faith in in the human spirit. I have faith in people deep down inside. They want to be good. They want to do what's right.

Rob Fenstermaker: maybe just in the moment. Because, you know, the the truth is, we never really actually know what's going on in somebody's mind.

Rob Fenstermaker: We don't know what crap they're dealing with.

Rob Fenstermaker: You know what issues they're dealing with. We just see them in this moment.

Rob Fenstermaker: and maybe they're just spun out of control. We don't know what's going on.

Richard Lowe: Did you ever.

Rob Fenstermaker: They seem to have it. Yeah, maybe they seem to have it all together, but in the reality, maybe not.

Richard Lowe: Do you ever see the movie what women want with? I think it's Mel Gibson.

Richard Lowe: He's he gets.

Rob Fenstermaker: Don't!

Richard Lowe: He gets struck by lightning or something, he can suddenly read women's minds.

Richard Lowe: and 1st he takes advantage of it, and then he starts to realize that he hurt somebody because he can read her mind. But she's not saying anything. It just a turning point. I mean, it's a it's actually

Richard Lowe: one of the better ROM-coms that I've ever seen

Richard Lowe: it. It's a very cause. It's got that twist, you know, that that kind of science fiction stuff.

Rob Fenstermaker: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: If you could read somebody else's mind.

Richard Lowe: would you act differently? You know.

Rob Fenstermaker: Yeah. And I think that's where you know, empathy comes in, because, you know, that's a skill. Had to learn how to use empathy, you know, having a daughter.

Rob Fenstermaker: I've had to learn how to be empathetic because I am. I kind of come from a little more. I'm a little more of, you know, direct, strict background just how I was raised, and you know where my family, you know, comes from, and I've had to really understand the power of empathy.

Rob Fenstermaker: and it has served me well, you know my daughter went through a tough period in her life, and I had to learn how to be empathetic as her father. I had to learn the value of the example I was setting to her. And empathy is one of those skills I had to learn.

Rob Fenstermaker: I'm far from perfect at it.

Rob Fenstermaker: but you know the power of empathy is you can appreciate and understand.

Rob Fenstermaker: The pain that somebody else is going through.

Rob Fenstermaker: It's you, you walking in their shoes.

Richard Lowe: Yeah, even if they're high heels.

Rob Fenstermaker: People people want, you know. People confuse it with sympathy, and sympathy. To me is kind of is an act of selfishness.

Richard Lowe: Sympathy is a desire to get is a desire to get

Richard Lowe: stuff from people. You use it to manipulate people.

Rob Fenstermaker: Empathy is more of understanding where people are at.

Richard Lowe: And and acting accordingly. So I understand why this person did this.

Richard Lowe: Let's

Richard Lowe: do what we need to do. Get him into therapy, help talk to him, put him in men's group.

Rob Fenstermaker: Hmm.

Richard Lowe: Speaking of which you are. I know that you're in 2 men's groups that I know of

Richard Lowe: the whiskey hour right.

Rob Fenstermaker: That this is not always there's there's a there's women to come there, and I actually enjoy when women come there, because

Rob Fenstermaker: I love getting their perspective. And I I've been pretty upfront about. You know my idea of what it means to be a man, and you know sometimes I'll kind of go a little bit against

Rob Fenstermaker: the grain that you'll you'll hear in society.

Rob Fenstermaker: you know that this idea of a toxic man, or, you know, male toxicity.

Rob Fenstermaker: and I've talked to enough women now that I feel encouraged that they want their man to step up and be a man. It's as simple as that.

Rob Fenstermaker: I see more women that are upset by this idea of the toxic man than I see than I see of men.

Rob Fenstermaker: Women realize the fallacy of that. They understand that. Yes, there are rules for men, and there are rules for women, and we've kind of really blurred these lines. And I think that's where a lot of men get really confused is they're

Rob Fenstermaker: they? They don't wanna rock the boat they don't want, you know. They don't wanna

Rob Fenstermaker: be, you know, outed, or whatever they just want to get along. But sometimes you know what you got to be willing to take that stand. You got to stand up for principle. You got to stand up for the character you have, and you've got to understand when to engage those battles, and maybe when it's best to back off.

Rob Fenstermaker: and that's what a warrior does. A warrior understands when it's time to engage, and also when it's time to maybe fall back and regroup.

Richard Lowe: Well, sure, sure, that's that's the way you survive. I mean, if anything we learned from World War 2 is stand your ground regardless of what happens is a recipe for disaster.

Richard Lowe: That's that's probably what killed Germany in World War 2 is one of the things, and a lot of other things, too, was like on the Russian front. Do not

Richard Lowe: give an inch. Well.

Richard Lowe: That's pretty stupid when you're being attacked.

Richard Lowe: And yeah, he's getting behind you, and all that kind of stuff.

Rob Fenstermaker: Well, let's let's kind of back it up, you know. Let's kind of go back. You know. I'm a i'm a bit of an amateur historian, especially military historian.

Rob Fenstermaker: Me, too, I love that

Rob Fenstermaker: time frame. I love that timeframe from, you know, the 19 tens up till the end of World war 2. And there's many historians who would argue that when the war started in 1914 it never ended didn't officially end until 1945. And I tend to kind of agree with that. And you know, why is it? Well, look what happened to Germany, and you know men of character didn't stand up against some of the atrocities that were going on.

Rob Fenstermaker: They felt emasculated. They felt like, Well, we need some we need. We don't have a leader now we need somebody. And so, you know, somebody who's got some charisma shows up on the scene, and

Rob Fenstermaker: the problem is, a lot of men didn't understand what their truths were.

Rob Fenstermaker: They didn't understand what it is now. There were some who says there were some who stood up. Dietrich Bonhoeffer. If you haven't studied him read about him. He took his stand, and he said, This is wrong, this is wrong, and you know he was imprisoned. He was thrown into a concentration camp, and he was eventually executed.

Richard Lowe: I'm telling you.

Rob Fenstermaker: Stood on his principle.

Rob Fenstermaker: He stood on his principle. He he knew what his character was. He stood on that he knew his ground, he was a he was an absolute warrior.

Rob Fenstermaker: He didn't fight with bullets, but he fought with words and ideas.

Richard Lowe: The way I look at it, the world is made a better place by the action, by the actions of many, many heroes and heroines. Of course, let's be fair. Yeah.

Richard Lowe: People who who go beyond the norm think outside themselves and

Richard Lowe: and do something about it, whatever it is, whatever's the wrong in their life that they see

Richard Lowe: whatever it is, even if I don't agree with it. There's lots of things people do that agree with, but if they think it's right, and it's based on fact, not some propaganda bullshit. Then.

Richard Lowe: You know. Let's go for it.

Richard Lowe: But that's that's another important thing I think men do

Richard Lowe: should do is understand fact from lies.

Richard Lowe: There's there's a lot of lies out there and understanding the different kinds of fallacies, logical fallacies and stuff is very important.

Richard Lowe: And then you go. Okay, yeah, that's that's the sun cost fallacy, or that's this fallacy. And

Richard Lowe: I don't need to fall into that

Richard Lowe: authority. Fallacy is a big one where you follow an authority figure, just because that's an authority figure.

Richard Lowe: And

Richard Lowe: you know, just because somebody says shoes are great and they're advertising on TV doesn't mean the shoes are great.

Rob Fenstermaker: Yeah, yeah, yes, I agree. And you you gotta be. You know you.

Rob Fenstermaker: We all want to follow leaders. I mean, we all want leaders. I I think we're in a real leadership void in this day and age. Right now, we we

Rob Fenstermaker: we really lack leaders in a lot of the, you know, pillars of our society things that in the past were

Rob Fenstermaker: paramount of what our society was about.

Rob Fenstermaker: and so we need leaders to stand up and and and do what they can. But

Rob Fenstermaker: in order to be a good follower, you need to be a leader as well. In order to be a good follower and a good leader. You need to know what your truths are. And if someone's just, you know.

Rob Fenstermaker: slick talker. Okay, well, what is it they really mean you? You got to do the you know, the hard, critical thinking yourself, and ask yourself those questions. Is this somebody that really makes sense?

Rob Fenstermaker: Because we've seen a lot of flash in the pans that come in and they're gone. But I think somebody

Rob Fenstermaker: who leads with principle their leadership will stand the test of time.

Richard Lowe: Yep, yep.

Richard Lowe: Speaking of false information, I was in a situation once where one there was this.

Rob Fenstermaker: Criminal who was going? Who was.

Richard Lowe: Who'd gotten through all of the various appeals and things, and he was up on to be executed.

Richard Lowe: and he had shot a cop in the face.

Richard Lowe: and there were 9 witnesses. I think it was 9, you know. I don't remember the exact numbers, and the person I was talking to, said, well, you know he shouldn't be executed, and we've got 800,000 signatures that says he shouldn't be executed, and and Jimmy Carter signed this, signed the petition, too, so of course he shouldn't be executed, and 9 of those, all 9 of those witnesses recanted. So I went through, and I read the entire

Richard Lowe: trial history. All the appeals and stuff, understood everything about it, and said, You know what

Richard Lowe: he should be executed.

Richard Lowe: There's because on the witness thing, the only one that counts is when they're under. The only words that count is when they're under oath

Richard Lowe: doesn't count after that, because they're not under oath, and because they, somebody.

Richard Lowe: all kinds of things could happen in the meantime, years later. So I said, Okay, I've done all this research

Richard Lowe: took days. It was, it was quite interesting and learned a lot about how courts work.

Richard Lowe: And I said, What research did you do? Well, my political website said this to do this.

Rob Fenstermaker: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: So you didn't do any research at all to validate it. Oh, no, no.

Rob Fenstermaker: You know.

Richard Lowe: So I said, well, then, the next thing I said is, do you really want our justice system based on voting?

Richard Lowe: Do you really want to vote whether somebody's guilty or not. Is that the way you really really want it to work?

Richard Lowe: He didn't understand. He did not understand. We became not friends.

Richard Lowe: He just.

Rob Fenstermaker: Yeah, it's it's it's yeah. And it's easy to jump to judgment. You jump to a quick judgment without knowing all the facts.

Rob Fenstermaker: And you know, something happens. It's in the news, and everybody forms an opinion right away.

Rob Fenstermaker: And then a little more information comes out. A little more information comes out, a little more information comes out, and the story is much different from what you saw when it originally happened.

Rob Fenstermaker: so you know, I'm not one who's quick to, you know. Jump on, jump to a I want to at least try. Do my best

Rob Fenstermaker: to get as much information as I can, you know. Get the get the whole story.

Richard Lowe: Why I read all the transcripts and things of the trials.

Rob Fenstermaker: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: Very interesting, you know. I got to learn how lawyers work and stuff.

Rob Fenstermaker: -

Richard Lowe: But yeah, I wasn't going to jump to judgment. I mean, you know, maybe he's not guilty. Let's take a look at it, you know, and conclusion, after doing all that research was guilty as hell.

Richard Lowe: And you know he needs to be that. That's this judgment of the society, and that's the way it works.

Richard Lowe: And he we became not friends at that point. It was so funny in hindsight

Richard Lowe: like, you can't have a you can't have a rational conversation with somebody.

Rob Fenstermaker: Yeah, you know. I mean, I think you know one of the things you know that that a leader does that's powerful, is he'll listen we.

Richard Lowe: That's where I was leading to.

Rob Fenstermaker: Yeah, we gotta listen. And yeah, I think listening to other people, you know, that's part of that having that empathetic ear. Because I mean we live in a day and age right now, where

Rob Fenstermaker: too many believe that the the man or woman who yells the loudest is the one who's going to win the army.

Richard Lowe: It's true.

Rob Fenstermaker: The one who yells loudest is just the one who yells the loudest.

Richard Lowe: It's true, and they have perceived authority.

Richard Lowe: That's the perceived authority is what really does a lot of

Richard Lowe: men and and women. I guess you think this person has authority and you believe them. That's how cults are formed. You know.

Rob Fenstermaker: Yeah, yeah, people.

Richard Lowe: Fall into cults all the time, and then.

Richard Lowe: and they may not even know it.

Richard Lowe: And those are. Those are fascinating. Cults are fascinating.

Rob Fenstermaker: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: Like Jim Jones. You remember Jim Jones, the youngster.

Rob Fenstermaker: I remember Jim Jones.

Richard Lowe: Anybody who's young Jim Jones, but.

Rob Fenstermaker: I remember that.

Richard Lowe: I remember when the day it happened, it was like reported on the news, like what the heck, what was the 600 people just committed suicide, because this guy said to.

Rob Fenstermaker: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: Interesting stuff. Obviously, not a lot of men. There.

Rob Fenstermaker: No? Well, a lot of brainwashed men, and you know, men who weren't weren't clear on you know what it is. They really understood what it is they believe.

Rob Fenstermaker: And I don't know a lot about this this story other than you know what I've you know. Maybe read online. I think there's been. I know there's been a movie about it that I might have. I know I watched. But yeah, it's

Rob Fenstermaker: if you, if you're going to follow if you're going to follow somebody. Does this person align with what it is you want?

Rob Fenstermaker: I mean, you don't have to be in 100% or lockstep agreement with them.

Richard Lowe: Of course.

Rob Fenstermaker: I've never been in 100 lockstep agreement with any, you know, Buddy, I've followed who was who I considered a leader.

Rob Fenstermaker: and when I've had the opportunity to lead. I never had the expectation that everybody's going to be in 100% lock step with what I said, but what the value of what, what a leader does is they create that vision. They cast that vision.

Rob Fenstermaker: I say, this is what we're going to do.

Rob Fenstermaker: This is what I want to accomplish. And I need you on this team

Rob Fenstermaker: to come together and let's get this done.

Rob Fenstermaker: and that's the value of what a leader does they? They take the, they take the the team, or the organization, or whatever it may be, on that journey with them to get to that destination.

Rob Fenstermaker: And when when the team works in, you know, concert and like that, it's like a symphony.

Rob Fenstermaker: A symphony can make a beautiful sound.

Rob Fenstermaker: But everybody's got to play their part. Not everybody can be the 1st violin. You can only have 1 1st violinist. You need somebody that's going to play, you know. Percussion. You need somebody that's going to play, you know the woodwinds.

Richard Lowe: And then you've got a Lisa Simpson there who does her own thing.

Rob Fenstermaker: Yes, yeah. And everybody has their part, if in that.

Rob Fenstermaker: So you know, know your part. You know, when I was in the army, we called it. Just stay in your lane.

Rob Fenstermaker: Do you know it's called Battle Battle Focus training. Stay in your lane. You have a job to do just do that job.

Rob Fenstermaker: and when everybody does their job

Rob Fenstermaker: it is. It's like a well-tuned orchestra that's playing beautiful music.

Richard Lowe: Yep, yep.

Richard Lowe: So that's actually a great place to to end this and would you like to summarize that real? Briefly.

Rob Fenstermaker: Well, you know, I mean, I think it's it's vital for men to understand what that warrior spirit is for them.

Rob Fenstermaker: Yeah, it's it's reawaken that warrior spirit, because when you do so.

Rob Fenstermaker: you you become the man you want. You pursue the things you want out of life, instead of just settling for those things you need.

Rob Fenstermaker: because when you pursue what you want, you're living a life of abundance when you're just settling for what you need. You're living a life of scarcity and a life of scarcity takes you nowhere

Rob Fenstermaker: but a life of abundance. It could take you anywhere.

Richard Lowe: Worse worse.

Richard Lowe: Well, thank you very much for that. Thank you for appearing on the leaders in their stories. Podcast. Appreciate your time.

Richard Lowe: This is, I'm Richard Lowe, and I'm the writing king and ghostwriting, Guru. And this is a regular podcast so come back next time.

Richard Lowe: Thank you very much for being on the show.