Leaders and Their Stories

Richard Lowe: Hello. This is Richard Lowe, and welcome to the leaders in their stories. Podcast I'm here with Doris, Walsh.

Richard Lowe: who's from the Uk, and we're going to talk about interesting things, Doris, can you introduce yourself.

Doris Walsh: Hey, Richard, thank you so much for having me. Yes, I'm Doris Walsh. I'm a life and leadership coach currently based out in Uk. But, you know, has a interesting background, and and corporate history, so pleased to be here.

Richard Lowe: Thank you. Thank you. We're gonna have a great conversation.

Richard Lowe: I know that you've threatened to hurt me if I didn't bring you on this show, and no, I'm kidding.

Doris Walsh: The driver is in the post. The bribe is in the post. Okay.

Richard Lowe: Look very mean. So no.

Doris Walsh: Do I?

Doris Walsh: I had never heard that.

Doris Walsh: Always say, too nice. That's what I typically get. But okay, maybe I'm you know, leaning into the inner badass, I am.

Richard Lowe: That that could be. That could be because you're coming across as one now, any anyway. Why don't you tell me a little bit about your your coaching

Richard Lowe: in in a couple of paragraphs.

Richard Lowe: What do you do for people.

Doris Walsh: Okay. So I help high achieving professionals who feel kind of

Doris Walsh: constantly kind of torn between, you know, continuing and and being awesome at their career, and then having that kind of internal kind of trade off with family.

Doris Walsh: you know, feeling as if they've got to sacrifice their family to continue the career, or feeling that they've got to sacrifice their career to be there for their family. So that's kind of what I help. People kind of

Doris Walsh: kind of kind of delve into to see

Doris Walsh: what truly matters to them right and help them redefine what's true? Success looks like for them during their current life. Current position in life where they are in terms of career and their families versus what? Maybe you know all the baggage that they've carried up until that point when they come and see me.

Richard Lowe: Interesting is, of course I've never had any baggage, you know. My my life is.

Doris Walsh: Of course not. Oh, wow! I wanna hang a ride with you a bit more. Then Richard.

Richard Lowe: Of course that's not true. Well, that's very interesting. That's very interesting. So if I was

Richard Lowe: a normal per, well, if I came to you and ask for service. What are the things you look for in a client that you want to bring on.

Doris Walsh: Okay. So I tend to work with people who've kind of started that kind of journey right? They're in that position where, in a space where God, you know, I think I'm feeling I'm doing all right. But you know life feels a bit hard, right? I can't seem to do everything that I want to do.

Doris Walsh: And you know, I've you know I think I need to be a bit more productive, a bit more efficient. So you know, I've downloaded the app. I've read the books right?

Doris Walsh: Why am I still not there yet? Right? So they've started looking inside and say, Hey, you know, is this really what life is all about? And I take them in, and I can help them, you know, kind of give them that space. What I typically find is that people haven't

Doris Walsh: taking a time out to really go inside themselves to kind of truly figure out what it is that they they truly want not what their boss says they want, not what their wives or husband says that they want, or

Doris Walsh: mother or father said that they should have, or whatever else. Right? It's just creating a space to kind of, you know. How do you want your ideal life to look like?

Doris Walsh: So I then help them unpack about. You know what that would look like, and and and we I take them through kind of a process to kind of work out what that is.

Richard Lowe: Interesting. Interesting.

Richard Lowe: So, yeah, I've actually gone through a lot of that through my life. Various therapists. That therapy is wonderful thing. If you find the right therapy. If you find the wrong therapy can be the worst thing of ever. If it's wrong

Richard Lowe: and you just it's just hit or miss coaching is a whole different thing. Coaches have a different purpose, and you're you're obviously on more of the coaching side. Never really had a mentor

Richard Lowe: in my life my entire life, which is interesting. I've had bosses, of course, but mentors no, and that that is something that I miss

Richard Lowe: having.

Richard Lowe: I think that would have helped a lot like in work.

Richard Lowe: I think the big mistake people make is they focus on one area of their life. They might focus on work. A lot of people do. I did that work is all that's important. I did that because the home life was was horrible.

Richard Lowe: So I focused on work and to the detriment of everything else.

Richard Lowe: Some people focus on on their home life to the detriment of work. Some people have no focus.

Richard Lowe: and they don't. They don't.

Doris Walsh: Sure.

Richard Lowe: And I think that's true of a lot of the people in the younger people these days is they come out kind of lost because they don't have a focus. I didn't have a focus when I was young, either. I mean, that's actually not new.

Richard Lowe: When I when I met, when I

Richard Lowe: grew up when I got moved out.

Richard Lowe: I didn't know what I was going to do. I mean, it was a geology major. I didn't know what I was going to do with that I would just pick something that I liked.

Richard Lowe: and then I switched over to computers, and then I became a Vp of a company. And then I started to have a focus.

Richard Lowe: And my focus was work.

Richard Lowe: That's actually what kind of undermine my parents a bit

Richard Lowe: was. They were very family oriented, and then they started self. They started their own business.

Richard Lowe: and the family just dropped away there.

Richard Lowe: So while and my my sister and I, when when our teens, which is a bad time for family to drop away.

Doris Walsh: And my parents were focused entirely on work and.

Richard Lowe: We weren't.

Richard Lowe: so we we annoyed them every day because we weren't focused on their business. We wanted to be teenagers. I was an arrogant little prick.

Richard Lowe: just like any teenager who's 1718.

Doris Walsh: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: What do you expect? You know?

Richard Lowe: so basically, as far as my sister and I are concerned, and I'll speak for me.

Richard Lowe: I lost my parents

Richard Lowe: at a time when I shouldn't have. They were still there, obviously. But they they it would have probably been better if we had lost them.

Richard Lowe: I don't mean that in a you know what I mean.

Doris Walsh: I know what you mean.

Doris Walsh: Kind of emotionally. You lost them.

Richard Lowe: Emotionally so coaching like yours can help. I think somebody untangle those kind of issues.

Doris Walsh: Yeah. So you know. So so if I kinda you know

Doris Walsh: why, I felt kind of pulled to kind of

Doris Walsh: coach this group of people was. Kinda I went through the same thing myself. I come, you know, Chinese, right? So you know anything. All the

Doris Walsh: stereotypes that you have about. You know Chinese families. It's all true.

Doris Walsh: but I was kind of taught to excel right? And 100 right? That that's what's important, right? And you have to work, and, like you, my parents have always had their own most of the time have had their own business, but it's a Chinese restaurant. So the family all came in right, so we were never without the family.

Doris Walsh: but we were there, working side by side, right? And that causes tension in itself right, you know, being there literally 24, 7 with your mom and dad, but it also kind of bonded. So we didn't have Mom and Dad, who were separate from us right. We were there with them the entire time. Right?

Doris Walsh: And you know for me it was a whole. I didn't know like you. How does some 18 year old or 21 year old, and I know some people who are very driven. I was the same like you. I had no idea what it was that I wanted to be. When I grew up, even 3 years ago I didn't know. I always said, I'll do this. I have no idea what it is, but as long as I'm going to have fun doing it, I'll do it right.

Doris Walsh: And only now I've just turned 50. Do I know what it is that I want to be when I grow up right? And this is who I want to be. When I'm growing up. I'm doing what it is that I'm meant to be doing, but it's been. It's come through that so. But all the way through it, you know, you kind of like, yeah, you know. And that comes to kind of success. Right? What does success mean to you as a 21 year old, or you know, straight out of college you go into the corporate space, or whatever

Doris Walsh: most typically oh, the big, fat paycheck! Right? Let me get that paycheck. Let me buy my foot, you know. Buy my 1st apartment, or whatever else right I want to travel the world. It's all got to do with external right. It's the money right? I want to do this. I want to get that promotion. I want to have that medal, or whatever else.

Doris Walsh: And that's great right. You have the motivation, and you go.

Doris Walsh: and then you know natural progression of life. You might meet, you know the love of your life, or whatever else right. And you are 2 single people. Dual income life is awesome. Right? I had that right, I said, oh, Paris, this weekend, honey, new York, next month. Shall we do that right? And you had the whole. You know that that freedom financially and whatever else right? No real, you know. Responsibilities right, you know. And before you know it, you know you're married, and you've got 2 kids, and you're like

Doris Walsh: Whoa! What the hell! Right? I think I kind of signed up for it.

Doris Walsh: but not really right, and especially if you've had a career right for a long period of time, where you felt so in control of what it is that you're doing right, because my life I could fit in a spreadsheet. I was also a spreadsheet. I could know I could know I could make it, whichever way I wanted it to be right. You know just better the numbers that I wanted right? And it was okay. Life was easy throwing numbers, screaming, child! Right? Who can't be fit in a freaking spreadsheet you're sitting there like.

Doris Walsh: And then, you know, obviously, the hormones, or whatever else right? And but for me, you know, I was like, I still want this career right? I've worked so darn hard at it, and I really quite enjoy it right, because I like the people talking to different people. Talking to a baby was for me personally, was kind of boring, which, you know, when I had kids back then that was like, My God, you

Doris Walsh: it was never said. But you're a bad parent, right? Because you don't want to spend your whole entire day

Doris Walsh: for the rest of your life. Now, just with this baby, I'm like, Yeah, Whoa, dude. This baby can't talk. It's not giving me any mental stimulation apart from mind. Fog right? I haven't slept for the last 4 days, right? Because this freaking child won't shut up right.

Doris Walsh: But I need some external simulation with adults right to get my brain cells running. So I chose to go back to full time work right? I know a lot of people in my

Doris Walsh: When I had my kids they went part part time, whatever works for you, right? But what I didn't do was, what does my life look like that with a child, I just thought, okay, Doris is on this career directory. There is just another to do thing which is called a baby right? I still want to be on this career Directory right? Whatever that profile looked like for me, and I never reassessed it. But what I didn't realize was, I've got a full time job, you know. I'm doing the 60 70 HA week, depending what it was. And I've got a baby. I've got a child.

Doris Walsh: I just thought I just had to do all right, because no one ever told me that you

Doris Walsh: you can't not do all if you know what I mean. But it's all these expectations. So I did.

Doris Walsh: And then second baby comes along, and you know, and at some point you kind of like.

Doris Walsh: wow! You know

Doris Walsh: I'm still having fun, but probably not as much fun as I thought I was gonna have. So what is missing? And there was this consistent thing that came up like there's something missing. I didn't know what it was.

Doris Walsh: And and that wasn't until you know circumstances, environments. And you know, whatever change happens, looks like for you that I just took some time out and said.

Doris Walsh: like, what's going on here now? I I want to do something. I want to do something different now. I I this doesn't look good for me.

Doris Walsh: and this is where I took some time out and say, Hey.

Doris Walsh: what is it that I truly want right, because I never reassess that. And I've actually never asked myself that until about 3 years ago, when I took that time out.

Richard Lowe: Interesting, interesting. I had a maybe roughly equivalent path, I mean, not. I didn't have children, of course.

Richard Lowe: Men can't do that surprise.

Richard Lowe: And I had a stepson. And I was married for 12 and a half years. She passed away 18 years ago.

Richard Lowe: And then I decided, okay.

Richard Lowe: she she she she was sick for 8 and a half months, I mean a half years.

Doris Walsh: Sure.

Richard Lowe: Lung disease all kinds of other things. I thought, you know, that is no way to live.

Richard Lowe: And I had a supporter.

Richard Lowe: And she basically got to the point where I had to help her get to the bathroom and stuff like that. And that's no way to live. And I had a full time job

Richard Lowe: and a church life and all kinds of other things.

Richard Lowe: So I decided, Okay, it's time to live.

Richard Lowe: So for the next 8 years after I started photographing, because I also that helped me with the grief.

Richard Lowe: and it helped me with the shyness

Richard Lowe: I was super super shy, and her dying even gave me in more. So I was even more shy. So I started photographing first, st started with national parks because it was it was fun, and I hadn't visited, and it was pretty safe as far as people were concerned.

Richard Lowe: went to all the national parks in the Southwest, us all of them several, and Joshua tree 50 times got lost. All kinds of adventures fell on a cactus, went all the way through. My foot fell down a cliff, you know the whole, the whole fun. It was all fun in hindsight.

Doris Walsh: But in hindsight. Yes,

Richard Lowe: Then ran into Renaissance fairs and ran into

Richard Lowe: photographed. Those became part of the Renaissance Fair Family. They're kind of like a circus group, but they're Renaissance fairs, Renaissance era. People dress up and reenact stuff.

Doris Walsh: Yeah,

Richard Lowe: Photograph them. They walk. They loved it because I gave photographs for free. And then i 1 day I sat down behind. I was photographing belly dancers

Richard Lowe: and at the Renaissance Fair, and then one of them approaches me. Her name is Marjani, and

Richard Lowe: she at the time for me she was scary. She had tattoos. Oh, my God! That she did herself

Richard Lowe: on her arms.

Doris Walsh: Wow!

Richard Lowe: Big big demons and stuff, and she had piercings all over the place and scared she. She laughed at this story, now scared the heck out of me. She comes up to me. I'm in the back row with my telephoto lens, and she says.

Richard Lowe: Richard, we love your pictures. We love you, all of us. Do. We want you to? 1st of all, we want to invite you to be part of our troupe.

Richard Lowe: Just you know, the Belly dance group. So you're now the official photographer, whether you like it or not. And and she put her arm around me. And I'm like, who is this woman, you know,

Richard Lowe: And she made me real comfortable. And then she said, You're you're now, you have the

Richard Lowe: the middle, a seat at every fair. And so you sit there in front row center. Take all the pictures you want. You want to come backstage. Do that, and I'm going to introduce you to every single belly dance group in that I can get you to

Richard Lowe: before you knew it. After 8 years I had photographed 1,200 dance shows

Richard Lowe: 300 Renaissance fairs, and every single year, as a Thank you all, probably a hundred to 200 belly dancers came and threw me a birthday party. All I had to do was was rent out, a place for them to do it.

Richard Lowe: so we would have an all night, and eventually 2 day long party with dancers

Richard Lowe: at places like Dharma Greb or pirate show, pirate place, pirate shop. It was a lot of fun.

Richard Lowe: and then

Richard Lowe: So that broke the shyness because I use the camera to talk to people.

Richard Lowe: And then finally, I didn't need the camera.

Richard Lowe: That's that's that's interesting. So the shyness was broke and

Richard Lowe: I decided it was time to leave

Richard Lowe: my corporate job at Trader Joe's and become

Richard Lowe: do my do my own thing. Best decision I ever made

Richard Lowe: drove across the United States, to get to Florida, brought the the moving around, followed me, and one of the dancers, an Indian Barth Anthemum dancer. I hope I'm not butchering that she has the bells on her feet and stuff like that.

Doris Walsh: Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Richard Lowe: Sh Marty, she's a good friend of mine, too, and she said, you're not going alone, and she

Richard Lowe: accompanying me through the whole trip

Richard Lowe: and help me unpack and all kinds of stuff, and then flew home, and then came on on Thanksgiving. After that, to show me what a

Richard Lowe: Vegan Thanksgiving looks like, and she was so proud she made a Vegan turkey, and she said, Taste just like Turkey.

Richard Lowe: and my 1st question, which I did, which I did not answer, I said, Yeah, you're right. But I was thinking, if you're a Vegan, how do you know.

Doris Walsh: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: And my second thought was, It doesn't taste like turkey. It tastes like something very spiced.

Richard Lowe: It was not bad, but it definitely was not Turkey. Turkey doesn't have much of a taste

Richard Lowe: unless you spice it up. It's kind of a bland meat.

Doris Walsh: Yes, yes, it is. Yeah.

Richard Lowe: You have to put stuff in it to make it. It serves as a base.

Richard Lowe: So anyway, that was fun. She's a fun lady she she was flying back from a

Richard Lowe: a dance show in Jamaica, and she did a layover in Florida.

Doris Walsh: Oh, beautiful!

Richard Lowe: Yeah, she did a lot of that stuff. So

Richard Lowe: I became a ghostwriter, and I was ghostwriting and ghostwriting and ghostwriting, and eventually made it to where I was making a living, and then a better living than I was making at Trader Joe's, and I was middle management Trader Joe's. So I was making a bit, you know. Well, well, into the 6 figures.

Richard Lowe: So the ghostwriting career started to get into that area.

Richard Lowe: and then, a few years ago it topped

Richard Lowe: you finally reached the you know, top trade Trader Joe's. It's like that's cool.

Richard Lowe: And what I concluded was with a lot of coaching and a lot of therapy was, my mission is to help people

Richard Lowe: help leaders get their message out.

Doris Walsh: In book form, so that they can communicate their message to people in their audience.

Richard Lowe: I'm not saying that quite right, but that was my mission, my purpose.

Doris Walsh: Yep.

Richard Lowe: A new, different purpose than I ever had in my life, and I really liked it.

Richard Lowe: I enjoy it being a ghostwriter, and I

Richard Lowe: went through a couple of coaches doing that to come to that conclusion. And I'm actually got a coaching session coming up. It's a very intense one.

Richard Lowe: put on called the Genius Room next week

Richard Lowe: that I'm looking for. I have to invite people to it. I keep forgetting I have to get people there.

Richard Lowe: But there's gonna be some people there, and the the objective is to tear me apart and rebuild me. I don't know really what to expect.

Doris Walsh: Well, it sounds as if it's an experience, right, you know. Just be open to that kind of experience, and you know, see what comes out of it. I mean, it sounds as if you know, with your background and what you've gone through, and the amazing people that you've met through your life right? I mean, you know, from what you're hearing, you're a totally different person then.

Doris Walsh: you know, from that shy.

Richard Lowe: Oh, yeah.

Doris Walsh: Right? Oh, yeah. And you've got this huge, you know, journey right? And experiences right? So you know, to me, you know, having fallen, sat on practices, you know, been in wildfires, survived hurricanes and tornazos. This whole breaking you apart and putting you back together sounds like a piece of cake, for you really.

Richard Lowe: It's 2 h long. What's the worst that can happen? That's usually that usually is a sign of doom coming. What's the worst that could happen? Well.

Doris Walsh: Glad you asked?

Richard Lowe: No, that's not a question. It's like when you're in a hospital. You never say, Oh, it's a quiet day, man. They hate you when you do that?

Richard Lowe: He just queried the whole day. Said that to a cop once. Are you having a quiet day? And he said.

Richard Lowe: I hate you and don't ever do that.

Richard Lowe: yeah, unless you want to really upset them.

Richard Lowe: So

Richard Lowe: one thing I've learned is getting getting older is it's funny I'm doing a lot of talking. But that's okay. You can break in anytime

Richard Lowe: is, don't don't take things so seriously.

Richard Lowe: A lot of the problems that we have are 1st world problems.

Doris Walsh: Yep.

Richard Lowe: I mean I I mean, I live in a nice place I got, you know, a nice car. I got nice stuff.

Richard Lowe: I'm doing. My health is good. I'm doing pretty well. So you know, cell phone doesn't work

Richard Lowe: it. That's I mean, this is a hypothetical. That's a 1st world problem. That's so. You do not need a cell phone to live. I went most of my life without cell phones because we didn't have them.

Richard Lowe: Today. Apparently they're they've become critical to people that you know. You really don't need one

Richard Lowe: when you think about it.

Richard Lowe: other things that happen, you know, the washing machine breaks. That's its 1st world problem. Just get it fixed.

Richard Lowe: Yeah. And you have an argument with your spouse, you know. Apologize.

Richard Lowe: But figure out what you did wrong, and apologize, and or have a discussion, or whatever.

Doris Walsh: But do you think, Richard, right, that your viewpoint?

Doris Walsh: What changed for you

Doris Walsh: to to have that feeling? Okay, you know, aside from the financial and and the comfortableness you know that you have. But what's really changed your thinking about it? Why did you not think like that, you know, 20 years ago, or 30 years ago.

Richard Lowe: I was more self-centered, more isolated to where I

Richard Lowe: it's just been a long and windy, twisty road.

Richard Lowe: What is it? The song long and long and windy road. I think it's a Beatles song. Yeah.

Richard Lowe: earlier in life there's a there's a line from a game you're you're stuck in a maze of twisty passages, all alike. That's from Zork. It's 1 of the original games. It's a text game

Richard Lowe: from the seventies, and I played it in the eighties. It's you do. Commands like, Go south. Go north in their text commands. They're not. There's no graphics at all. You're in a maze of twisty little passages, all like, and that's what I kind of felt like life was.

Richard Lowe: There was no guidebook. There's nobody to help you. I never had any help with life. They, you know, you leave high school, and you know they they shop metal shop was the way to become

Richard Lowe: somebody who could have a career metal shop or wood shop or something, and that's just stupid.

Richard Lowe: They know. What? What do you need when you get out of high school well, because I need to know how to balance a checkbook.

Richard Lowe: Nobody taught me that. I did know that, but it was a big surprise to me.

Richard Lowe: Oh, my God! I gotta pay bills!

Doris Walsh: Hmm.

Richard Lowe: Nobody taught me that. And then about relationships.

Richard Lowe: Parents didn't pull me in on that. Nor did school, for Bowden can't talk about that kind of stuff.

Richard Lowe: you know, but that's kind of essential for life to know that stuff like.

Richard Lowe: hey? If you don't take the appropriate precautions, you can have babies.

Richard Lowe: I didn't know that.

Doris Walsh: Yeah, yeah. So they do have sex. Ed, now at school. But the thing that the life skills, even though you know my kids are 12 and 10 and a half right. They don't teach them really the life skills. The thing about, you know, compounding interest on paying bills.

Richard Lowe: Right right? Investing. Never learned that until now, you know. No clue

Richard Lowe: didn't even know that it wasn't that. It was an issue until you a few years ago. Oh, wait! What's this investment thing? Because I was too focused on my own life and my own.

Doris Walsh: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: That that probably was. The problem is, I was focused on

Richard Lowe: specific areas, and I just started to loosen up

Richard Lowe: I just over the now that I'm doing my own career, it's my own business. I'm loosening up, and life is becoming

Richard Lowe: better. I'm not so wound up and anxious, and

Richard Lowe: and so forth. One thing I found one reason why I left Trader Joe's is, it was very.

Richard Lowe: It's a very high paced environment, and I found that I was actually causing myself physical and emotional damage.

Richard Lowe: Give myself migraines.

Doris Walsh: Right.

Richard Lowe: All kinds of problems, plus being married to a woman who was very sick, plus

Richard Lowe: all the other things that were going on having a stepson.

Richard Lowe: It was not fun. And then,

Richard Lowe: All these things just wound me up tight. And now I've been unwinding.

Richard Lowe: And now one of the things that really really helped. This is the the amazing advice. If if

Richard Lowe: there's 1 piece of advice I could give to anybody that would save their life, it's take every single person, family, or friend, or whatever who's in your life, who's causing you any kind of harm? Anybody who's toxic anybody who speaks bad about you behind your back or to your face. Anybody who upsets you, invalidate and cut them out of your life. Cut communication. Don't even talk to them. Don't even try and relate. You got a mother-in-law who's gone.

Richard Lowe: You've got a aunt who's talking about you like your piece of trash gone. You've got somebody who's telling you?

Richard Lowe: Well, you know writing won't. You can't make a living on writing gone

Richard Lowe: Get rid of those people, and your life will improve dramatically.

Doris Walsh: I agree. But you know. And and why do you think people stick with those people, though?

Doris Walsh: Well, you're taught? You know you family is the most important thing. Well, there's they're harming you.

Richard Lowe: You're taught you know. Keep. Keep. You keep trying. You keep trying to make the relationship better. There's a point at which, after a couple of tries that you just go. No, it's not going to get better.

Richard Lowe: Yeah. Sure, you might give it a try or 2. You might talk to them, because it might be just a misunderstanding. You might be the one who's the jerk.

Richard Lowe: you know.

Richard Lowe: Yeah, that's but I was ever a jerk in my entire life.

Doris Walsh: Of course. No, you're an angel. Yes.

Richard Lowe: Well remember, so was Lucifer.

Doris Walsh: True.

Richard Lowe: No,

Richard Lowe: Didn't think of that, did you?

Doris Walsh: There was a.

Richard Lowe: Biggest, baddest angel of all, you know, most beautiful one.

Doris Walsh: Yeah.

Doris Walsh: But you know. And this, this is interesting, right where people you know and like, you say, you know, it's that kind of mindset. Right? You know we're talking about. You know, this is family is the most important thing you know. Blood is thicker than water. Blah, blah, and all this kind of stuff right? Or you've only got one, mother. You've only got one brother, sister, or whatever else right? But

Doris Walsh: but you're right right. It's kind of like, you know. And it's okay to let go right? It is okay. If those, you know. Because I grew up, I'm not the same person as I was, you know, a year ago or 5 years ago, whatever right? And people move along. And it's

Doris Walsh: and as long as I am okay, letting go

Doris Walsh: right, and I feel better for it.

Doris Walsh: Then

Doris Walsh: why does it matter what everyone else says? Right? Because they're not in my shoes? How do they know? No one really knows they can empathize. But they're not right in my shoes, because they're not hearing my thoughts right. And and all these, you know, negative feelings that this person in your life might be, you know, impacting you because they don't see it that way, or they don't feel it like that, or whatever else. Right? It's like, it is okay to let go right? It is okay

Doris Walsh: to not have people who've been with you for the last 2030, 40 years with you and let go if they're not serving you right, or you know maybe not, you know, and depending on who you are. What is that you want to maybe not cut them off totally. But say, look.

Doris Walsh: I'm gonna limit to once a year or just phone calls. I'm not gonna be in a, you know, in in a physical setting with them, or whatever else right? Change it.

Doris Walsh: Cause that's all we're in control of. Right? We're. I'm in control of me. I'm not in control of you. Right? That's kind of I can change me. I can change, not picking up that call whenever they call. I can say no, thank you very much.

Richard Lowe: Was in a pretty awful communication with my aunt.

Richard Lowe: My aunt was calling me, and she wanted to know something, and she was just like you need to tell me. And she was ripping my head off.

Richard Lowe: And I was. I was like in my fifties, and I finally thought, after listening to this for almost an hour. Wait!

Richard Lowe: I'm an adult.

Richard Lowe: Why am I letting her treat me like a small child? Click!

Richard Lowe: She called me right back. Don't you dare him! Click!

Richard Lowe: Blocked her on everything, never talked to her again. It's like, what the hell am I doing listening to this stuff?

Doris Walsh: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: She. She had a habit of doing that. But one thing I found is I would talk to, and I got very, very good at this I would

Richard Lowe: be in a conversation with somebody, and then I'd leave, and then I'd ask myself, do I feel better or worse from that conversation?

Richard Lowe: And there were some times where

Richard Lowe: I noticed that I actually got sick. After being with the person physically sick.

Richard Lowe: M.

Richard Lowe: It became as I chop people off. Who were, it became more and more noticeable because there were less and less intrusions. And oh, yeah, this person is making me ill.

Richard Lowe: and they're gone, and I'm not ill anymore. It's amazing how much illnesses and how much psychological problems and how much

Richard Lowe: issues you're having in life are caused by others tearing you down.

Doris Walsh: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: If you if you fix that, you fix a lot.

Doris Walsh: Yes, yes, but but that all comes starts with the whole awareness, right? You being open to kind of look. What's really going on here is this is this something that I'm doing? Or is it the environment and the people that I'm socializing with, or whatever? And to kind of being able to pick. It's kind of like the puzzle, right? You know, and like you say, you know, one advice you give is.

Doris Walsh: and there's someone who's toxic in your life is really not adding value to you. Say right, say bye, bye to them, right, you know, and or limit your exposure to them, or whatever else, right, and for you for similar, you know, one advice is kind of like.

Doris Walsh: be truthful with yourself.

Richard Lowe: I have a trick.

Doris Walsh: Thanks! Oh, cool! Go on!

Richard Lowe: Record a phone call and get the permission, of course, because if you need to record your phone calls and then listen to yourself. If you get in. If something happens like you get in an argument.

Richard Lowe: what do you? Then you find out what you did. So let's say, you're talking to. You know your your spouse, or your ex spouse, or something, and it's going fine, and then it explodes in your face. If you listen backwards you can find out where you said the thing that caused them to explode. Maybe

Richard Lowe: you know that they have a problem with this thing.

Richard Lowe: You know that she gets mad at you when you you don't bring out the garbage.

Richard Lowe: and then you you don't take responsibility for that. I'm just making this up.

Doris Walsh: Yeah, yeah.

Richard Lowe: Well, 1st of all, you can take out the garbage, and second of all, don't bring it up.

Doris Walsh: Don't make excuses.

Richard Lowe: So the process has to start with. What are you doing? Are you pushing their buttons first? st

Richard Lowe: If you're pushing their buttons, then you're the problem.

Richard Lowe: Yeah. And by button, I mean emotional button. You know.

Doris Walsh: Yeah, I know, yeah, yeah.

Richard Lowe: If then, after that, that's when you start looking at cutting them off, you have to look at yourself first, st

Richard Lowe: because you could be the problem. And and I know it's hard to believe. But there have been several times when I've discovered I'm the problem.

Richard Lowe: Really.

Richard Lowe: I know it's amazing, isn't it? It's like, Oh, yeah, I caused that argument because I pushed a little too hard, or I

Richard Lowe: did that. And you the best way to do that is to listen to the conversation. Later

Richard Lowe: I go. Oh, yeah.

Doris Walsh: Yeah. And like, you know, and that would be a, you know, great kind of kind of reflection, right? Especially if you have that conversation again. Right, you know, to listen back to it, you know. And you know, if if you are able to do it because you you're noticing, it's always with that person on that conversation, or something like that, you know. Yes, absolutely. The you know, the one I like to use is just kinda take some time out, you know. Time out right. No mobile phones, no whatever. No children, no husband just by yourself. Go for a walk right.

Doris Walsh: or just sit there and think.

Doris Walsh: you know, sit somewhere where you feel very comfortable, and just think

Doris Walsh: right and just even to sometimes not thinking. It's just kind of like, you know, whatever you know, you want to be better. Right? If it's you know, personal relationship, right? What is it about

Doris Walsh: this this person's relationship? So for me. It was me and my mom

Doris Walsh: very close. But, my goodness, can she? I mean she has. She has a

Doris Walsh: the the trigger button. Oh, she feels. I felt for a very long time. She had a finger on it the entire time, right? It didn't matter that I'd moved out of house. I I was a wife, and I was parenting every single time as soon as the phone call, you know. Chat, chat, chat, you know. Literally less than a minute I'd start getting annoyed

Doris Walsh: right? I'd start getting annoyed because she was telling me, or you know, how to live my life, whatever whatever moms do right, and I get so annoyed I get so annoyed, shout shout. But Chinese people tend to do that anyway. Right? It starts kind of ratcheted, you know. Go up. And then suddenly, right, okay, I'm not speaking to you anymore. And I put the phone down. But 2 min later you're fine again. But then we'd go through it all again. And it wasn't until you know, recently, when I just sat there, I was like, well.

Doris Walsh: this is not really working. She isn't a toxic person. She's just, you know, I was like.

Doris Walsh: But this is me right. I'm allowing myself. I have full ownership of my emotions and my reactions. Right? So why am I allowing her

Doris Walsh: so? I looked at my relationships like, well, how can I change this? Because I love my mom? I don't want to cut out my life right, and she's got the good intentions. But I was like, what is that about me? So that was that journey to, you know, pick up, you know. Oh, okay, you know, because my mom says that a Chinese girl should be like this and act like this and do this blur. And the things about money is important about this. And it's more important, you know, is the happiness more important than money more important? Apparently money is more important than happiness. Right? So I'm sat there, you know I'm like, no.

Doris Walsh: I'm not allowing her to. So I just

Doris Walsh: allowed her to have her say without reacting, because I sat there was like.

Doris Walsh: I'm an adult like you say I'm an adult just because you are giving me advice, even though it's unsolicited and not wanted right? You give me advice.

Doris Walsh: Who says I've got to take on that advice and make it mine?

Doris Walsh: Right? I I have that space to say, thank you very much for that.

Doris Walsh: I might consider it. Or I say, Oh, thank you very much. That's a gift, right?

Doris Walsh: Actually, I don't like this gift. It's gonna go back in the cupboard right? I'm not gonna take it out. I'm not gonna wear it, or whatever else, right? And you can say done. I'm not done, and since then, gosh! It's been so much easier talking to my mom. I'm just letting her go right. Just let her go.

Richard Lowe: Problem.

Richard Lowe: It's nothing prattle on, and she'll she'll eventually run out of breath, and they're done.

Doris Walsh: Yeah, and we've done right.

Richard Lowe: Yes, I understand. Yes, I understand. I Gotcha, you know.

Doris Walsh: But you know what's really interesting. She's now changed her

Doris Walsh: communication skills with me. The way that she talks, the way that she behaves towards has also changed because I chose not to interact with her in the way that we've been doing for the last nearly 50 years. Because I'm saying, no, this is your view. And I sit there. It's like, Oh, yeah, I can see why you say that, mom. I can see, you know. Yes, yeah, it's no wonder that you feel like that. I'm not there to convince her anymore, or whatever else I'm just like, yeah.

Doris Walsh: But I'm not fighting her anymore. So she's like.

Doris Walsh: Okay, we don't have to fight when we talk right? So she's changed. And now we can have 45 min conversations without us having, you know either one of us slamming the phone down instead of just 5 min. Right? So that's progress.

Richard Lowe: Sometimes it works. And then another thing I've done that that works very well is.

Richard Lowe: I ask myself, why on earth do I have mementos from people that I don't like, and who are harmful to me

Richard Lowe: like an ex-girlfriend or somebody I'm cut off from.

Richard Lowe: Keep their picture up, you know. Whatever, threw all that stuff away, and.

Doris Walsh: How'd that feel.

Richard Lowe: It's very, very.

Richard Lowe: At 1st it was hard, but it was very, very.

Richard Lowe: It felt like I'd lifted a whole load off my shoulders.

Richard Lowe: just just threw away everything from the past that reminded me of anything.

Richard Lowe: Negative. So I would just look at things. Okay, how do I feel? I'm depressed about that, because it was.

Richard Lowe: you know, this person that I liked. But they blah blah trash can.

Richard Lowe: Because when you think about it, it's just stuff.

Richard Lowe: Yeah, but the stuff has memories associated with it.

Richard Lowe: Now, if they're really good memories, keep it. If they're not good memories, chuck it.

Richard Lowe: And it's amazing how that feels it really, really is uplifting.

Richard Lowe: keeping the junk away from your your mind, keeping the bad stuff away, anyway.

Doris Walsh: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: Go ahead!

Doris Walsh: No, no, I say, you know, and and that's kind of you know the the things, how much we put value on to say something that that's that. That's all here, right in our head, right? And

Doris Walsh: it's totally within our own power

Doris Walsh: to not put as much value on that same thing again right? But that's the thing. I think people don't reassess right? We don't reevaluate. We don't sit there and think. Oh, because you know, back when I was 20, right? This was so important to me, and it stays that important 30 years later. It's still that important, although your life is totally changed. And actually, it doesn't matter anymore. Because, like you say, these momentums from ex partners, or whatever else. Well, they're not going to come back in your life, and neither do you want them back in your life right.

Richard Lowe: Yeah, this is hell. No.

Doris Walsh: Why, yeah, well, exactly right. It's kind of like. So why am I still holding on to it.

Doris Walsh: you know, and then it's kinda.

Richard Lowe: Or the stuff where you've got these momentos you go. I don't even know what this is. Yeah.

Richard Lowe: don't even remember it. Toss it

Richard Lowe: unless it's pretty or you got you, or you know, it's really something

Richard Lowe: special, and I found that there's very little that's special memento wise. Once I started getting. I did. I did 3 or 4 big purges

Richard Lowe: and finally wound up, getting rid of probably 70% of what I own.

Richard Lowe: And it that was over several years, and it was. It was tough, it was tough.

Doris Walsh: Can imagine, yeah.

Richard Lowe: So

Doris Walsh: Can't hear you anymore.

Richard Lowe: There! We're back.

Doris Walsh: Yay!

Richard Lowe: This is also my phone service. So it it can interrupt.

Doris Walsh: Okay.

Richard Lowe: Alright. Well, we've been talking for pretty close to an hour.

Doris Walsh: Boom.

Richard Lowe: Yeah, I think 45 min. So

Richard Lowe: anything you want to say in closings.

Doris Walsh: No saying that, you know. You know, you always have a choice

Doris Walsh: that that's that's that's really the most important. You know it just

Doris Walsh: just because you're feeling stuck or feeling down in whatever way there's always a choice right? And that choice sometimes takes, you know. Just take a step back right or ask for help. Right, you know, and that's the thing you know we were taught. I came from a generation asking for help as a weakness. It isn't right.

Richard Lowe: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Doris Walsh: It is. Put your hand up and and and reach out to someone that you trust right and ask them, Nick, this, this is what's happening.

Doris Walsh: Hi, and sometimes just by talking about it. Actually, it's not as bad as is what you've internalizing.

Richard Lowe: Yeah, get a I mean, if you're having trouble, get a therapist, get a coach, pick your therapist carefully.

Richard Lowe: because there are some.

Doris Walsh: Pick anyone carefully.

Doris Walsh: There are some bad ones and be prepared to to leave if they're not helping you.

Doris Walsh: Yes.

Richard Lowe: If you're if you.

Doris Walsh: You don't have to stick on. Yeah.

Richard Lowe: Yeah, just just stop.

Richard Lowe: Cause you're if you're in a therapist, you're probably paying for it. So what are you paying for? Not to get help?

Richard Lowe: Now.

Doris Walsh: And I think with with any of those you know, those kind of serving helping. You know professions it is, you know. You have to have a rapport with them right if you go in, and you're not liking them, or you're not liking the vibe like you say, move because they're not going to help you, because you're always going to have that resistance right to get the help that you need. You need to be open right. And if you don't feel that you can trust that person, you're not going to be vulnerable. You're not going to open up. So it's then you're wasting money, really.

Richard Lowe: Right? Right? So, yeah, well, thank you for coming. This has been the leaders in their stories. Podcast how can people get hold of you?

Doris Walsh: I'm mostly on Linkedin. So look me up on Linkedin, using my name, Doris Walsh, connect with me, and if you're fancy a chat. Just drop me a DM. Happy to chat always and see how I can help you.

Richard Lowe: All right. Well, this has been the leaders in their stories. Podcast thank you for coming. I'm Richard Lowe, the writing king and ghostwriting Guru, and it's been nice having you and

Richard Lowe: thanks for coming.

Doris Walsh: Thank you.