Leaders and Their Stories

Richard Lowe (00:01.336)
Hello and welcome to Leaders and Their Stories, turning influence, excuse me. Hello and welcome to Leaders and Their Stories, turning experience into influencers. In this podcast, top technical leaders share their journeys, insights and game-changing lessons. Each episode explores challenges, innovations and leadership moments that shape their careers and equips you with strategies to elevate your influence. Thank you very much. And tonight we're here with Royce Blake, who's a copywriter and is going to tell you how to.

Use its copywriting skills to help you get those projects that you've needed to get done approved and help you get through to upper management and the board and CEOs and such like that. Take it away rice.

Royce (00:42.979)
Well, hey, thank you, Rob. No, just kidding, Richard. Glad to be on with you. Yes, I am a longtime copywriter and content marketer. And I just thought I'd, you know, mention a few things about how we persuade people in copy, you know, like the ads you see, because there is a method to the madness. So stop me if you have any questions for sure.

Richard Lowe (00:50.712)
Yes, I am.

Richard Lowe (00:56.206)
I just thought I'd mention a few things about how we persuade people in copy, like the ads and stuff, because there is a method.

Richard Lowe (01:10.67)
copywriting is truly salesmanship in print and one of the things especially if you're going to say put a project out for approval get something through the pipeline well it's important to be persuasive at the same time right so one of the ways you do that and it's a bottom line in marketing is these magic words

Royce (01:12.345)
Copywriting is truly salesmanship in print. And one of the things, especially if you're going to, let's say, put a project out for approval or get something through the pipeline, well, it's important to be persuasive at the same time, right? So one of the ways you do that, and it's a bottom line in marketing, is these magic words.

what's in it for me? Because that's what every human being thinks about. Think about when you wanna go buy something or make a decision for yourself. It's human nature to think, before you make that decision, am I gonna like this? Is this gonna be what I need? What's in it for me? And if you can answer that question for whoever you're talking to or writing to, well,

Richard Lowe (01:40.94)
What's in it for me? Because that's what every human being thinks about. Think about when you want to go buy something or make a decision for yourself. It's human nature to think, before you make that decision, am I going to like this? Is this going to be what I need? What's in it for me? And if you can answer that question for whoever you're talking to or writing to, well,

Royce (02:09.507)
That's where you start and that's the basis of persuasion in my mind.

Richard Lowe (02:09.806)
That's where you start and that's the basis of persuasion in life. Can you give me a couple examples? Sure. So let's say you want to sell a toaster. Doesn't matter what it is. Well, you're not going to say that. Let me back up a little bit. There's a difference between features and benefits, right? A feature is something that

Royce (02:18.883)
Sure, so let's say you want to sell a toaster. Doesn't matter what it is. Well, you're not going to say that. Let me back up a little bit. There's a difference between features and benefits, right? A feature is something that would still exist if nobody ever touched it. That's the easiest way to think about features. So the toaster has

Richard Lowe (02:40.014)
would still exist if nobody ever touched it. That's the easiest way to think about the features. the toaster has, you know, four slice holes, I guess they're called slots, I guess. We'll stick with slice holes. So, you know, that's a feature, right? But the benefit is you can toast four slices of bread at one

Royce (02:48.363)
you know, four slice holes. I guess they're called slots, I guess, wouldn't they be so they will stick with slice holes. I kind of like that. So, you know, that's a feature, right. But the benefit is you can toast four slices of bread at one time. So you're not waiting, right. You hate it when you get your toast first and your wife hasn't got any yet.

Richard Lowe (03:09.804)
you're not waiting right you hate it when you get your toast first and your wife hasn't gotten it yet odds are it's the other way around but you get what I'm saying so you know that is a benefit

Royce (03:16.591)
Odds are it's the other way around, but you get what I'm saying. So, you know, that is a benefit and you want to talk in benefit language. What's in it for them? So no matter what you're pitching, you want to pitch to them what they're going to get out of it, the benefit. And that's why features and benefits are so important. You always want to talk in benefit language.

Richard Lowe (03:40.102)
Well, let me, let me give you this real life example. So when I was at my last company, I was trying to get a cybersecurity package approved and it was a lot of money and

Basically they didn't listen and didn't approve it. And I just walked in there and had flip charts and all kinds of cool stuff that I thought was cool. Presentation all lined up, started going into all of the technical details and the CEO looked at my boss and said, he can leave now. Literally kicked me out of the room. no, no, and then my boss was embarrassed on the whole thing. So what could I have done better there?

Royce (04:13.071)
Not a good answer. No, no. You never want to hear that.

Royce (04:25.219)
Well, once again, you want to tell them what's in it for them. Even if you're dealing with multimillion dollar projects, can it save them money? That's number one, right? That's probably what they're thinking about. They're thinking they're responsible for the bottom line because odds are there's a few people above them and they don't want to look bad. So your job is to make them look as good as possible. you know, benefit language once again is

Richard Lowe (04:25.902)
Once again, you want to tell them what's in it for them, even if you're dealing with multi-million.

save them money. That's number-

Richard Lowe (04:39.81)
the

Royce (04:54.873)
How is this gonna help? Is it going to speed things up? Is it gonna make it more efficient so you can, let's say, not use as many employees? Was gonna say fire a few people, but you understand what I'm saying. So once again, it's a cost benefit if they go with this. Or maybe it's something like what I like to call your point of onliness. If this makes you like the only, you know,

Richard Lowe (05:09.066)
Yeah

Royce (05:24.121)
company or organization in the market that has this feature and it will benefit the customers in a way that only you can do, then that's a point of oneliness, a point of differentiation that you can use in marketing and obviously throughout shareholders.

Richard Lowe (05:38.702)
can use in marketing and obviously throughout shareholders. Okay. So this is something that anybody who's in the technical industry, who's a say a tech leader, know, a director or VP could use these techniques to basically sell their ideas and projects and whatever to their managers and leaders or even the board. Absolutely. And it's important to remember.

Royce (06:03.199)
Absolutely. And it's important to remember, and this is tough for a lot of people, you have to believe in the product yourself. If you're trying to sell something that you don't believe in, it's not going to work and they're going to see right through it. So once you've convinced yourself that this is the best thing you can do, product you have, service you provide, whatever it is,

Richard Lowe (06:10.072)
You have to believe in the product yourself. If you're trying to sell something that you don't believe in, it's not gonna work. And they're gonna see right through it. So once you've convinced yourself that this is the best thing you can do, product you have, service you provide, whatever it is, you go in there with your guns blazing. Just like, look, man, this is incredible. And they're not gonna, the other thing, especially in tech, is,

Royce (06:30.019)
You go in there with your guns blazing because like, look man, this is incredible. And they're not gonna, the other thing, especially in tech is they're not gonna understand or care about certain features that it has this much memory or it can, you know, calculate whatever this speed or whatever. They don't care about any of that. They wanna see results. Is this gonna get me faster results? Is it gonna get me cheaper results?

Richard Lowe (06:39.576)
going to understand or care about certain features that it has this much memory or can calculate whatever this speed or whatever. They don't care about any of that. They want to see results. Is this going to be faster results? Is it going to be cheaper results? Is to be different than everybody else in the industry? Those are the things you should...

Royce (06:59.073)
Is it gonna make me different than everybody else in the industry? Those are the things you should be talking about.

Richard Lowe (07:06.604)
Well, now that I've been a ghostwriter for 11 years and I have learned storytelling, changing the subject slightly, storytelling is what often sells things. So if I were back there now, I would tell a story at the beginning of the house. Say somebody was breached, meaning somebody got through the cybersecurity and stole records and what the result of that was. This, company lost 120 million records and that resulted in, you know, lawsuits and this and this and scare the

hell out of these people and then say, we can prevent that and go into that. And I guess that's a benefit. mean, am I on the right track here? Yeah, absolutely. yes, it can be. The benefit is that you can keep this from happening. mean, that is, yes, fear is a great motivator and if you can paint a horrible picture for someone, that's why we love horror films.

Royce (07:45.806)
Yeah, absolutely. yes, it can be the benefit is that you can keep this from happening. So, mean, that is yes, fear is a great motivator. And if you can paint a horrible picture for someone, that's why we love horror films, right? Because right when you think the worst thing happened, it gets worse. So same thing with when pitching someone. And it's it's kind of a.

Richard Lowe (08:05.422)
think the worst thing happened, it gets worse. So same thing with when pitching someone. And it's kind of a razor's edge because you don't want to get to the point where you're yelling at a CEO going, look, if you don't do this, you know, everybody's you're going to lose this and this and this. Nobody wants to hear that. They want to hear what's in it for me. By painting the pitcher, and especially if you can use a competitor

Royce (08:14.797)
razor's edge because you don't want to get to the point where you're yelling at a CEO going, look, if you don't do this, you know, everybody's you're going to lose this and this and this. Nobody wants to hear that. They want to hear what's in it for me by painting the picture. And especially if you can use a competitor, that's even better. Hey, did you hear what happened at Cisco? Boy, you won't believe this. They went through this and this and this and it cost them

Richard Lowe (08:35.662)
That's even better. Hey, did you hear what happened at Cisco? Boy, you'll believe this. They went through this and this and this and it cost them this much. With this program, we'll never have to worry about it. That gets back to benefit. I see. see. So presenting things in a story form with the benefits embedded can really help because obviously, obvious to me now, not back then.

Royce (08:44.099)
this much with this program, we'll never have to worry about that. That gets back to BenefitLang.

Richard Lowe (09:04.696)
You don't want to talk technical speak to these business leaders. That seems to be a mistake.

Royce (09:11.809)
Absolutely. it's the same with, you know, I mean, some people, let's take cars, for instance, right? Some guys are gearheads, right? They care exactly, you know, what size the engine in, what kind of torque does it have? Other people like soft seats, you know, or, you know, gosh, it's a pretty color. You know, it's amazing that most people like even Danica Patrick, right? The race car driver.

Richard Lowe (09:33.806)
It's amazing that most people like even Danica Patrick, right? The race car driver. She knows nothing about cars. People are surprised to hear that. She didn't even know how many cylinders her car had. She didn't care. She just likes to race on it. And that's the same kind of mindset you need to have when you're going work. Trying to explain especially a complex issue to someone that really only cares about

Royce (09:40.27)
She knows nothing about cars. People are surprised to hear that. She didn't even know how many cylinders her car had. She didn't care. She just likes to race them. And that's the same kind of mindset you need to have when you're going with trying to explain, especially a complex issue to someone that really only cares about A, what's in it for me? Will this stuff work? And B, you know,

Richard Lowe (10:03.166)
A. What's in it for me? And B. Is this going to make me look good to my boss? Because that's all they really care about. you're talking.

Royce (10:08.587)
is this going to make me look good to my boss because that's all they really care about because they're worried they're going to make the wrong decision and they don't want to do that.

Richard Lowe (10:21.006)
So you're talking about the person you're talking to looking good to their boss. see. Not me looking good to my boss. He doesn't care about that. Right. I mean, you obviously want that because you're, you know, once again, it's a next step and that's you're, you're always trying to get to the next step. If you're going to say, you know, initiate a new

Royce (10:24.983)
Their boss,

Royce (10:30.947)
Right, I mean, you obviously want that because you're, you know, once again, it's a next step and that's your, you're always trying to get to the next step. If you're going to, well, let's say, you know, initiate a new program or something that, that does cost tens of millions of dollars, right? That is not going to be done in one meeting, you know, and I'm sure in an industry like tech, there's a lot of meetings, right? So, you know,

Richard Lowe (10:45.816)
does cost tens of millions of dollars, right? That is not gonna be done in one meeting.

Right

Royce (11:00.889)
You're going through a chain and his boss is thinking the same thing. He doesn't want to look bad to the president or the shareholders. know, so it's a continuous thing. But once again, if you stick with what's in it for them and you believe in the product, then you should have no problem, quote unquote, selling it.

Richard Lowe (11:23.97)
So you have to believe in the product, use a bit of storytelling and tell them the benefits.

Royce (11:29.387)
Absolutely. Always talk in benefit language is what we call it in the marketing world.

Richard Lowe (11:36.238)
I see, rather than features. So, oh boy, my security program has these new things and it's going to block this and it's easy to use and blah, it's going to do, what we want to talk in is, okay, I need three less people to run this and it's going to save us from getting breached like the other company was. And basically I'm.

Royce (11:56.397)
Right? Or things you never will never have to worry about again. You know, like I would love, you know, I'm not sure if it's all capture, but you know what I'm talking about, but people will never have to pick out six motorcycles from a picture again. That's a benefit. That's that's that's a what's in it for me statement. So, you know, that's the kind of thinking you need. And it really doesn't matter the

Richard Lowe (12:09.422)
People will never have to pick out six motorcycles in a picture like Oh, please. That's what's in it for me statement.

Royce (12:26.009)
product or the service or really who you're talking to. You've got to let them know what's in it for them because they're not going to care unless you're saving them money, you're saving them time, or it's going to make them look good, then it's going to work.

Richard Lowe (12:28.296)
Well, really who you're talking to, you've got to let them know what's in it for them. Cause they're not going to care unless you're saving them money, you're saving them time, or it's going to make them look good. it's going to Gotcha. this could, this could actually go across all industries and like we're dealing a lot in what I'm doing with, technical people, technical leaders who are trying to get projects approved, perhaps even

my services. So what they need to do is put those, all of those things and change the whole mindset. Probably it's probably not some, I would gather that's not something that's, that's native to most people thinking in these terms.

Royce (12:59.844)
Right.

Royce (13:11.917)
Right, but you don't have to relearn. You don't have to suddenly become a salesperson. Just look at what this product is and if you believe in it with your whole heart, why? Ask the question, why? Why do you believe it? Take it some time and write down 50 as in five zero things it does. And I tell you, once you get about 12, it starts getting harder. If you keep going, you'll find some minuscule thing

Richard Lowe (13:14.902)
suddenly become a sales

Richard Lowe (13:29.55)
50-50 as in 5-0 things it does and I tell you once you get about 12 it starts getting harder if you keep going you'll find some minuscule things that at first didn't seem like much but you also it goes off in your brain you're like wait a second if this does this and that means people don't have to ever do that again

Royce (13:41.655)
that at first didn't seem like much, all of sudden it goes off in your brain. You're like, wait a second, if this does this, and that means people don't have to ever do that again, that's a huge benefit. And once you get those bullet points in your head, that's really all you need because you'll be able to go boom, boom, boom. These are all benefits. And if they're, if they stop and ask about a feature, then that's awesome.

Richard Lowe (13:56.244)
And once you get those bullet points in your head, that's really all you need because you'll be able to go boom, boom, boom. These are all benefits. And if they stop and ask about a feature, then that's awesome, right? Because now they're interested, they're engaged, and you can explain how this thing works and how many people worked on it and how, you know, light years ahead it is of the competition.

Royce (14:11.245)
Right? Because now they're interested, they're engaged, and you can explain how this thing works and how many people worked on it and how, you know, light years ahead it is of the competition. So, but always start with the benefit first.

Richard Lowe (14:25.966)
always start with a benefit. Yeah, yeah. And now I've been also, there's something called the hype cycle, which AI is going through now where the market is going at this and then it becomes, um, everybody wants it because it looks like it's going to make a lot of money and go shoots up and then it crashes because suddenly they realized it's not the savior of the world. And then it comes down and gets to a new normal. Um, that hype cycle seems to

Royce (14:40.312)
Right.

Royce (14:47.246)
Right.

Richard Lowe (14:51.636)
Oviate what you just said because people are looking at the hype then rather than at the benefits. They're like, my god I got to get into it got to get into this new thing and They're skipping a step, which is what's in it for me or my customer or my customer

Royce (15:03.789)
Yeah, exactly. Right. Exactly. Because, know, you're you have to technically you're selling to your boss, right? Or whoever the decision maker is. But then again, he's selling to his boss. But all these people have to come together and realize that it's really the customer that's going to be the whoever the end user is, is the one that's going to benefit. And you need to keep in mind

Richard Lowe (15:21.166)
together and realize that it's really the customer that's going to be the whoever the end user is is the one that's going to benefit and you need to keep in mind even as a tech person that you know somebody's going to have to market this somebody's going to have to sell this IP before they'll ever sign up for whatever know thing is and then of course you know a week later

Royce (15:33.909)
even as tech person, that somebody's gonna have to market this. Somebody's gonna have to sell this idea to people before they'll ever sign up for whatever thing it is. And then of course, a week later, China will put out a cheaper one.

Richard Lowe (15:49.602)
China will keep the land. Yes, and you brought up an interesting point, which I think we'll finish this on, is you don't need to be a marketing expert or take 15 years of sales courses or go pretend you're a salesperson for a year to do this. This is something anybody can do. Is that correct? Absolutely.

Royce (16:06.959)
Absolutely. Yeah, believe in your product and just think what's in it for them. And once you understand what's in it for them, then it becomes much easier to write or speak or whatever, because the same goes for proposals. You better start your proposals with what's in it for them, because they're not going to care about specs. They're not going to care about research time.

Richard Lowe (16:24.952)
Right.

Royce (16:36.235)
or money or any of that. All they're gonna care about is, you know, what's in it for them? Is it gonna be cheaper? Is it gonna be more efficient? You know, can we streamline this because of this thing? Then, you know, those are all great things.

Richard Lowe (16:54.934)
individuals now or companies that are going off to get venture capital and investments and things like that. I take it this applies to them to those kinds of things also. In fact, it seems like it would apply even more.

Royce (17:05.891)
especially shareholders, sure. Because you know, how many, you know, I've read a few, it's great for bedtime reading when you read the, you know, the stock report, the shareholders minutes, but you know, same thing for them. They want to know, well, who cares? I don't care that you opened up another factory in Des Moines, Iowa. What does that mean to me? know, except

Richard Lowe (17:32.61)
Right. 500 more units a week which translates into more profit which translates into better ROI blah blah blah and now you're speaking their terms rather than your terms which means you have a better chance of selling.

Royce (17:34.197)
If you say, because we did this, we can now produce 500 more units a week, then that matters. So once again, benefit language.

Royce (17:52.537)
Right.

Royce (17:56.223)
Exactly. Once again, it's all about knowing your audience. And that's true whether you're selling ice cream or a space shuttle. It really doesn't matter who's your audience, who's going to read this or hear this. And you need to tailor it as much as you can to them. Because, I'm definitely you're the tech wizard, Richard. I'm certainly not. You know, I'm lucky I even got on this call. But OK, I'm a little better than.

Richard Lowe (18:03.342)
ice cream

Richard Lowe (18:13.026)
need to tailor it as much as you can to Good. Because, you know, I'm definitely, you're the tech voice.

Royce (18:27.181)
But you understand, it doesn't matter. These are universal principles that have been around forever. So it's human nature and humans don't change that much.

Richard Lowe (18:27.726)
you understand, it doesn't matter. are universal principles that have been around forever. So it's human nature and humans don't change that much. No, they resist change dramatically. So if you had one final giveaway thing that you would tell people that they could take away from this, what would it be?

Royce (18:50.223)
I think, you know, if you really believe, it gets back to believing in your product, believing in your service. If you truly believe this can help people or make their lives or days easier, then get behind it. It shouldn't be a problem. If it doesn't, if you don't believe in the product, know, eh, you know, you might be in the wrong place. know, it's hard to say that, but you know.

Richard Lowe (18:51.086)
Sounds

Royce (19:20.303)
You know, if it's just your job to fill out the, you know, what were they, TR forms? I can't remember the office space reference, but you get the idea. So, you know, yes, it's really belief in what you're selling and it becomes so much easier. Think about this. If you think that you're there to help and not sell, if you're sincerely there to help,

Richard Lowe (19:29.406)
Right. I do. Okay.

Royce (19:49.849)
people buy. That's all I do. I just help people buy. I explain the benefits. If it's not for them, great. Glad to meet you. If it's your boss, obviously it's a different dynamic. once again, believe in what you're selling, go in there with your head held high and don't worry about it.

Richard Lowe (19:55.054)
I explain the benefits, it's not for them, right. Glad to meet you. If it's your boss, obviously it's a different dynamic. So once again, believe in

Richard Lowe (20:11.502)
and don't worry about it. Gotcha. Well, thank you for coming on the podcast, Royce. Appreciate it. How would people reach you if they need to talk to you? Probably easiest way is LinkedIn. You can look for Royce like.

Royce (20:21.231)
Probably easiest way is LinkedIn. You can look for Royce Blake there or Royce the writer, but Royce Blake is my name. that's, you know, kind of what I'm sticking with. So I would love to. I've been a marketer for a long time and was on the radio for even longer. So glad to talk to you about that as well.

Richard Lowe (20:30.158)
race of lake is my thing.

Richard Lowe (20:38.478)
marketer for a long

Richard Lowe (20:44.75)
Yes, for those of us who remember the radio, yes. Yes, indeed. Yes, indeed. Well, thank you for coming on board. This has been fun. So this has been the leaders and their stories podcast, and I am a ghostwriter and I am the writing king and the ghostwriting guru. And if you need to talk to me, you can go to the writing king.com or ghostwriting guru.com.

Royce (20:50.285)
Yes, back when they had humans on the radio. It's crazy.

Royce (20:58.765)
My pleasure, Richard. Thank you so much.

Richard Lowe (21:14.825)
and set up an appointment to talk anytime you want. Thank you very much for listening and hope you come into the next one of these. Thank you very much. Talk to you later.