Leaders and Their Stories

Richard Lowe: Hi, this is Richard Lowe. And I'm in with the leaders and their stories. Podcast I'm, the owner of the writing king and ghostwriting, Guru, and I'm here with Jerry Cherie.

Richard Lowe: who's going to talk to us about leadership? So, Jerry, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Jeri Seeley: Hi, Richard! I've been in hospitality and culinary and journalism for a very long time. The hospitality industry has kind of been running through my blood since I was a teenager, helped put me through school, working on all of the different things that I've you know, kind of started doing along the way.

Jeri Seeley: you know, and and I've I've had some really good leaders. I've had some really bad leaders. I myself was a novice leader, finding my footing on the kind of leadership that I wanted to to put out in the world, and kind of, you know, finally found that footing, and know you know what I believe to be the right type of leader

Richard Lowe: Interesting. Well, we'll have a good contrast here, because I can honestly say I've never really had a good leader

Jeri Seeley: Okay.

Richard Lowe: I've had some mediocre leaders myself. I came from Tech.

Richard Lowe: I never took any leadership or management training except for some, you know, those cheap classes that managers always send you to like how to be a supervisor. You know how to communicate their 90 bucks, you know.

Richard Lowe: so that's you know I was probably

Richard Lowe: an okay leader most of the time, but at a at a relatively mid mid level position Director of computer Operations at Trader Joe's so mid level

Richard Lowe: and then I was a Vp of a couple of companies. They were tiny startups.

Richard Lowe: manage lots of people, but I can't really say that I was a

Richard Lowe: leader. I was more of a manager.

Richard Lowe: and that's just the way it was. But that good leader.

Richard Lowe: the closest, would probably be John Shields. He was the CEO who turned around Macy's back in the nineties. And then he came on this Trader Joe's, and he turned it into a billion dollar company.

Richard Lowe: It was only about half a billion at the time.

Richard Lowe: and maybe Steve Davis. Steve Davis was my very 1st manager, and it was his very 1st management position also.

Richard Lowe: and he became an executive big, high, level executive at Disney eventually, and he was my one and only mentor

Jeri Seeley: Throughout my career. So I, I had a 33 long career in tech with basically on my own.

Jeri Seeley: Okay.

Richard Lowe: So we'll have a little contrast here in our discussion. That'll be fun

Jeri Seeley: Well, the hospitality industry, you know. It's a service industry by standard. So you have to have some type of understanding, you know, working with people continuously, so to be able to work with guests. And you know your staff, both front and back of house. Those are 2 different animals completely to get them to work together is also

Richard Lowe: Right.

Jeri Seeley: You know, takes a little bit of finesse on certain days, and then, you know, you just you find those diamonds in the rough. I had a girl, and this was probably one of my favorite stories, and I felt so great about it after it was done.

Jeri Seeley: You know she was an amazing bartender. She came from a nightclub background. You know I had at the time we were. We were not a nightclub background. We were, you know, kind of more of a cocktail bar. You know you have your clientele, and you want your repeat customers. You want people sitting at your bar coming in multiple times a week. So you're building and the rapport. There was a lot of people that didn't believe that she was going to go far

Richard Lowe: Let's see.

Jeri Seeley: I, you know, watched her, and she was always amazing at getting out the drinks quickly and accurately. But she just didn't have that

Jeri Seeley: like. I guess, the the confidence to speak with the guests while she was doing it, or just know how to handle that. So for a few days in a row. I got back behind the bar, and I worked with her, and I made every drink. I talked to her. I told her you're going to talk to the guests while I make their drinks, and I'm here to jump in if needed. But you're going to be the one doing this

Jeri Seeley: interesting.

Jeri Seeley: So we we did. We worked together, for, you know, a few days in a row, and she just kept getting more and more confident with each guest, and she wasn't allowed to make the drink, so she didn't have anything to like keep her tied up or occupied. So

Richard Lowe: Right.

Jeri Seeley: Taking the drinks. She was talking, and you know, in the beginning I was talking more, and she was interjecting, and then I would back away and do less. And and so she ended up becoming one of

Jeri Seeley: the best bartenders that I was working with at that point in time, and she had a great, you know.

Jeri Seeley: group of regulars that came in, and she always did well with her tips. So you know she was. She was a great success for that, and one of

Richard Lowe: Nice

Jeri Seeley: My favorite stories.

Richard Lowe: Nice. Do you know of a channel on Youtube called Jessica Vannell?

Jeri Seeley: No.

Richard Lowe: Okay. She's she's worked in hotels. She's worked at Disneyland as all kinds of places, and she does these little

Richard Lowe: pick talks that are minute and a half long, and she goes deep into the service industry issues and things. And it's hilarious because she's funny.

Richard Lowe: and I think she's been doing for many years. She's got thousands of them, so you never run out of material. I would highly recommend you. Check her out.

Richard Lowe: Jessica Vannell

Jeri Seeley: And okay.

Richard Lowe: VANE. L. It's Jessica vanilla, and she's

Richard Lowe: she's very funny, and she knows all about

Richard Lowe: the problems that are in that industry.

Jeri Seeley: There. There are a lot you know, and and it's not just a 1 thing. You know, the the

Jeri Seeley: the older service workers want to blame the younger ones. The younger ones want to blame the older ones. There's miscommunication. There's there's a lot of things that need to be fixed. I think we're trying to work on that figure out the gaps. You know. I know that the younger

Jeri Seeley: service and hospitality workers don't quite have that like finesse of talking with the guests and understanding that that is part of their position. Yet they, the older clientele need, or the older workers, need to understand and remember that the younger ones kind of bring a different mentality, and like at work they can

Jeri Seeley: quickly do a tiktok. Come, visit me. They can, you know, bring in clientele from people that they are friends with outside of. And their technology helps a lot. So there's things to be learned on both sides. It's just got to be open to communication

Richard Lowe: Yeah, yeah, I remember, I was on my, the last edition of this. Podcast this came up.

Richard Lowe: I, went to one of those dating services that many years ago, you know one of the online dating services, one of the big ones.

Richard Lowe: and they hooked me up with somebody who was a loon, I mean

Richard Lowe: I was. I was afraid that to turn my back on her

Richard Lowe: it was it was that, but you know, not just because of my harm but self-harm.

Richard Lowe: And so I

Richard Lowe: I went to the place and I called them up, and I said I'd like a refund. They said, Nope, you went on a date. You can't go on a re. You don't. We don't give refunds. After that period end of story. I worked my way up the chain and got to the Cmo.

Richard Lowe: I can't believe I got to the Cmo. But I was pissed, and the Cmo. Told me, okay, we'll give you half your money back if you promise never, ever, ever to come back here again. I was like, that's totally fine with me. That is the worst customer service I think I've run into among the worst is, we're talking a hundred and something, Bucks, you know you got a pissed off customer.

Richard Lowe: Just give them the money back, you know. And

Richard Lowe: so now now they got a whopping review from me. Of course I don't tend to. People don't tend to write positive reviews. I do.

Richard Lowe: because I figure I need to balance a little bit, and I do have good service sometimes. I don't give reviews for normal service. I give reviews for outstanding service, but that was that stood out to me in my mind since then it was a good 30 years ago, but

Richard Lowe: just lousy, lousy customer service.

Richard Lowe: not not even any empathy. They didn't care. And it's like, yeah, you got billions of dollars. You can afford 170. I think it was 175 a year at that time, or maybe 2, 25. You can afford to refund that

Jeri Seeley: If they.

Jeri Seeley: I think that's I think that's a problem in every industry right now. There's so many times that I've called, and the customer service has been awful. I refuse to speak with dte or consumers, Edison, I actually make my husband call them. I am like I'm not dealing with them like they are ridiculous. We just went through a situation we canceled our xfinity and moved to at and T. Fiber

Jeri Seeley: We were much happier with it, plus we were paying an outrageous amount for xfinity. They you had to do the bundle. You had to do this. And you know, they're like, Okay, fine, you know. And we were getting a credit back, which was actually a pretty significant credit. And they were they kept, you know, kind of jerking us around with lack of a better word. For almost 2 months

Richard Lowe: Yeah, I'm with spectrum here, and I couldn't be happier

Jeri Seeley: Oh, that's good!

Richard Lowe: Had them come in and do, there's something was wrong. So they sent a tech out. Tech said, Well, you know, I'm not sure whether this is our problem or yours. But we're going to give give you the the

Richard Lowe: visit for free. Normally they charge for it, and they've actually never charged me for a visit.

Richard Lowe: and they're pretty fast, and when there's outages they they page me

Richard Lowe: and I don't even have to spend long on the phone talking to their stupid AI. I hate the companies that have these stupid ais in front that they literally are stupid.

Richard Lowe: You get in this loop where you. You keep getting thrown back to the main menu. It's like, No, I want to talk to a person. Oh, you want to go back to the main menu.

Richard Lowe: That's not what I said.

Richard Lowe: And finally, I just sometimes I just push the 0 key down until it responds and overloaded or something. But these companies are doing. AI. They're doing it for themselves. They're not doing it for me.

Richard Lowe: especially on the, on the help desk or on our the chats. I hate them. They're not very good yet

Jeri Seeley: No, they're not, and you know you're taking away again the the customer service

Richard Lowe: Right.

Jeri Seeley: So there's nobody there to to be empathetic. There's nobody there to understand your problem. And there's nobody there that actually wants to help you with your problem.

Richard Lowe: Right.

Jeri Seeley: Kind of like pushing it through, and you know, escalating it to wherever they think that it needs to go, because they

Jeri Seeley: they haven't heard everything like they give you. Here's your one through 5 choices of what's wrong with you know what you're calling about, and if it doesn't quite fit into the exact thing then. Yes, you're booted back to like the main menu, or a different menu again, and

Jeri Seeley: very frustrating, very quick

Richard Lowe: The other one is Florida Blue, I mean, everybody puts down insurance companies, but I call them up, you know. They got their menu in front, but within, usually within a minute or 2. I'm talking to a person.

Richard Lowe: and that person almost always has the answer, and if they don't, they find the one who does. They actually find them and connect me to them.

Jeri Seeley: Amazing

Richard Lowe: And yeah, they they're they're they're a big company. So they don't change their minds very often, you know, if it's not, if they're not going to cover it. They're not going to cover it.

Richard Lowe: But yeah, I've been relatively happy with with what they do on the phone.

Richard Lowe: It's my, I. The issues that I have are probably deeper, having to do with coverages and things.

Richard Lowe: But that's another company with good, I think good, relatively good leadership in that area.

Jeri Seeley: Okay, I we don't have Florida blue up here. So I

Richard Lowe: Well, it's Florida, it's Florida.

Jeri Seeley: Right? I mean Michigan. We we have very limited. Our insurance companies are pretty high. Oddly enough, we are, you know, Michigan being. You know, the auto auto place. You know

Jeri Seeley: our

Richard Lowe: Rust belt. It's called the Rust Belt.

Jeri Seeley: Well, now it's yes, but now our car insurance is like one of the worst in the country. It's 1 of the highest and one of the worst

Richard Lowe: I've got a little Kia soul that's from 2,016, and I'm paying $1,500 a year for the darn thing, and that's the lowest that I could find.

Jeri Seeley: Oh, that's nothing

Richard Lowe: Yeah, I'm I'm sure it is, but I mean I barely drive it. I drive it maybe 20 miles a week, because

Richard Lowe: I'm an Introvert. You know I don't drive much. I drive to the store

Jeri Seeley: Well, my husband and I, we have both of our daughters are on our car insurance. They're they're both old, you know, in their twenties

Richard Lowe: You're gonna pay a lot

Jeri Seeley: Well, they're both. Their driving records are fine, good credit, all of the things like. But for the 4 cars and the 4 drivers we're paying

Jeri Seeley: pretty much a thousand dollars a month to have

Richard Lowe: Wow!

Jeri Seeley: Bridge.

Richard Lowe: That's a lot

Jeri Seeley: It's a lot that same auto insurance, same company that we've been with for over 10 years. You know, we were potentially looking at making a move down to Texas. And it was like

Jeri Seeley: almost $1,600 for a year. And I was like, Are you kidding me like I can basically pay one month for an entire year. That's

Richard Lowe: There you go!

Jeri Seeley: So excited.

Richard Lowe: Yes.

Jeri Seeley: So.

Richard Lowe: Yeah. So customer service is interesting. At Trader Joe's. The idea was

Richard Lowe: store. Our customers are number one

Richard Lowe: And the stores are number one. So if there was a store problem we would drop everything go, all hands depending on the severity of the problem.

Richard Lowe: So if the store was down, we had a warehouse that burned up burned down so we didn't want the stores to get out of products, and the warehouse was on the east coast, and the nearest warehouse was, I think

Richard Lowe: I think it was all the way in California, you know. I mean, it's far across, maybe Texas.

Richard Lowe: So we had to ship stuff all across the country, and it was literally all hands, you know, all hands all day into the night, figuring out how to get this product

Richard Lowe: from place that didn't know that it had to ship clear across the country and trucking companies, and doing all this kind of. So we had a Lady Lily Brum. She was in charge of operations. She's a genius, I think. She's retired now, but she was a genius. She could handle this stuff and she came in. We're all arguing about with each other, you know, about what we're supposed to do, and she said, everybody shut up

Richard Lowe: and she wasn't even in charge. I'm in charge now.

Richard Lowe: Okay, fine with me. And she took charge, and she put everybody in, you know, 2 leaders. She put everybody in the right path, set up meetings, the whole thing. And then she came to me and said, You okay, with all that, and I said, Sure, because we were we were. We were pretty good friends and

Richard Lowe: She took charge. And then she she delegated to me basically half of it. And she, I did computer half. And then she did the other half.

Richard Lowe: Nobody else could do it.

Richard Lowe: I mean, it was a disaster. Yeah.

Richard Lowe: And then that was short term and long term. And we the stores, did not run out of product

Jeri Seeley: That's amazing. That's somebody doing their job the way they should be doing their job. That's amazing.

Richard Lowe: Yeah. And our biggest disaster, interestingly enough, was when Albertsons, the unions at Albertsons, decided to go on strike. So they were basically down closed for a month.

Richard Lowe: you'd think that would be good for our business. It was great for a business business went up by like 60%.

Richard Lowe: It took us by surprise. We weren't ready for it.

Jeri Seeley: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: So we had to go. All hands emergency

Richard Lowe: shipping product to stores. There are places where you cannot park a semi because you'll get fined for it because they're loud.

Richard Lowe: We didn't care, she said. She. Lily again said.

Richard Lowe: Eat the fines. We don't care, park them there because we had we just

Richard Lowe: the stores were emptying, emptying literally half the day through, so we had to get store trucks there 3 or 4 times a day.

Richard Lowe: and I don't. I don't care about fines. Just just do it, you know.

Richard Lowe: And it was very interesting

Jeri Seeley: Did you guys ever get to a point where you were caught up with that

Richard Lowe: Yeah. Yeah. Well, eventually the strike ended. And and things are kind of sort of back to normal, although most the thing about that is the customers who would. One of the reasons why we'll make sure we want to have the shelves full is customers are finicky.

Jeri Seeley: Oh, yeah.

Richard Lowe: If you. If. When Albertsons was down, they came over to us and they didn't come, they didn't go back to Albertsons

Jeri Seeley: That. That's why I just didn't know if you guys had like, actually like figured out a way to balance that and keep those customers, so that when you were delivering, you you guys had adjusted that delivery program

Richard Lowe: We kept a large percentage. Now, the opposite wasn't true. Trader Joe's is almost a cult. People don't leave Trader Joe's as a rule, and even though the parking is always terrible, I think it's part of the business model. The parking, the parking is the worst

Jeri Seeley: I can attest to that. The trade. I have a trader, Joe's that is

Jeri Seeley: 3 min from my house, and I love it. There is another grocery store in that plaza.

Jeri Seeley: They're they just added a sephora.

Jeri Seeley: It is a nightmare of a parking lot, anyway, between Trader Joe's and Sephora being right next door.

Jeri Seeley: I have to say it's probably the worst in the county. I hate going to that parking lot

Jeri Seeley: more than anything, but it's so convenient

Richard Lowe: And it's Trader Joe's, and and stricter, too.

Richard Lowe: They've got their own mix of mostly do private label now, and it's got their own mix of stuff, and it's their own. Do you know that every product in there that Trader Joe's sold is tested by the buyers, and everybody in there eats that stuff to make sure it's right

Jeri Seeley: Oh, I'm not surprised. I did not know that, but I am really not surprised. I I their their products are great

Richard Lowe: Their products are great, and sometimes they aren't. And they, those products don't last long, because Trader Joe's is very willing to take a risk on products

Richard Lowe: You know. We'll see if it works, if it doesn't work, get rid of it

Richard Lowe: including my favorite thing. And everybody has that complaint their favorite thing.

Richard Lowe: Oh, why did Trader Joe's get rid of this? Well, it didn't sell

Jeri Seeley: You're probably one of the few people that bought it

Richard Lowe: Or they couldn't get it.

Jeri Seeley: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: Because a lot of stuff was shipped from overseas. But the the leadership at the tactical level was very, very good. At Trader Joe's Lily and other employees.

Richard Lowe: did definitely did the work and made things go

Jeri Seeley: You can see a trickle down. I don't think I've ever been into any trader, Joe's, and I've been to a handful of them

Jeri Seeley: where the any anybody that's working is always happy to help. You can ask anybody a question, and and they're happy to drop what they're doing and and help. There's I've never seen anything other than that

Richard Lowe: Well, this is another leadership thing that's part of the training, and it's it's enforced. If a customer complains about not getting help, there's hell to pay

Jeri Seeley: Because customers are number one.

Richard Lowe: Now they're not always right. We don't have. That's a stupid philosophy

Richard Lowe: cause. Sometimes they're wrong, but customers are number one. So the customer has an issue. We go our door.

Richard Lowe: I'm not there anymore. I've been gone for 11 years, but we would go to our great lengths to get it solved. That's good leadership.

Jeri Seeley: Yes, they and I do agree. Customer is not always right, but they are still your customer, and they are still your number one without a customer. You don't have a job. You don't have a business. You don't have anything so to try and make them happy. Flip them and solve the problem as best you can to to take care of them and make them not feel like an idiot or an inconvenience or a problem.

Jeri Seeley: You're doing great

Richard Lowe: Yeah, although. I don't remember Trader Joe's ever catering to Karen's.

Richard Lowe: Karen's are a whole different thing.

Jeri Seeley: Yes.

Richard Lowe: And they should never be catered to, because you just reinforce their their illness.

Jeri Seeley: Oh, I agree, there's I actually coined. Now there's Kim's, and it's k dot I dot m dot Karen in the making

Richard Lowe: Hmm.

Jeri Seeley: Yes.

Richard Lowe: And there's Keith's or Keith. I think it's Keith's the mail version

Jeri Seeley: Oh, okay. Oh, I like that.

Richard Lowe: I think it's Keith, or something close to it. It's like cool, you know. There's there's definitely men, Karens

Jeri Seeley: Yes, there are.

Richard Lowe: Yeah, yeah, I love watching the Karen videos on on Youtube when I'm really bored and like, Wow.

Richard Lowe: I can't. I can't even imagine people acting like that. I mean, I've had my Karen moments, but nothing like those

Jeri Seeley: Oh, I've seen a lot of Karens in the restaurants through the

Richard Lowe: Oh, yeah.

Richard Lowe: Yes.

Jeri Seeley: You know, and and I think the worst ones are the ones that, like, you know, they're they're just complaining about everything. But then they eat like 90% of their meal. And then they want to say that they didn't like it. They, you know. And then how do you argue? You can't like completely argue with that. But at the same time it's like you ate 90% of it. If you didn't like it, would you really have eaten that much of your food, I mean. Come on.

Richard Lowe: And at least be so about it. You don't have to scream at people

Jeri Seeley: Yeah. And you know, sometimes it is the server's fault. Sometimes it's the kitchen's fault, sometimes it's just a day. I mean everybody that works in the industry is is human, you know. You have your good days and your bad days, you know. I like to give every like. If I've gone to a place, and it's been bad service or been bad food. I will give it a second and potentially a 3rd time before I like. Write that place off

Richard Lowe: Depends on how bad it is. If I think cockroaches I ain't going back

Jeri Seeley: Oh, no, no, no, that's a different story, like I'm talking about the service, or like, you know.

Richard Lowe: I know what you mean.

Jeri Seeley: The food came out. Yeah, no. If I saw a bug, or like it was just plain out. Dirty. I'm I'm probably not staying

Richard Lowe: Yeah, it just depends on on

Richard Lowe: how bad this. I had a I wanted to buy a Kia, and I wanted a red one for some reason. So I went into the the place that I went to pep boys. They have great service in mind, but usually they're not. But this one is great.

Richard Lowe: and they said, Your car is toast. We can spend 2, $3,000 fixing it, or you can buy a new car.

Richard Lowe: and we recommend you go to the Hertz place that sells the rental cars.

Richard Lowe: So that's where I went, and the customer service there is among the worst that I've ever seen in my entire life, and I've seen some bad customer service.

Richard Lowe: The guy was like he just didn't care.

Richard Lowe: He he put his feet up on the table. He actually said that he was on drugs.

Richard Lowe: yeah, didn't specify what kind, you know could have been head cold drugs, I don't know, but that's really not something. You tell your customer, and it took 8 h to buy a car

Jeri Seeley: Oh!

Richard Lowe: I wanted it, and That I that's 1 of the few one star reviews I've ever left. But I got the car.

Richard Lowe: but it's yellow, but I grew to like it. It was just terrible

Jeri Seeley: I have a problem with dealerships, you know the whole sleazy car salesman. I've had a handful of those situations. When I was in my twenties. I looked like I was a teenager, and it didn't help, because, you know, at the time I was still in college I was working, you know I. So on my days off yeah, like, throw my hair up in a messy bun. I wear a hoodie ripe up jeans

Richard Lowe: You know.

Jeri Seeley: Whatever you know, like I like to be comfortable. Let's just you know it is what it is. I went in to get a new car.

Jeri Seeley: I have the money. I have the credit. So I go into a dealership to get a new car. I'm looking at a nice jeep wrangler. I had my husband meet me there who came from a business meeting, so he's dressed in a suit.

Jeri Seeley: The guy at the dealership just wouldn't even look at me was like talking to my husband about

Richard Lowe: Right.

Jeri Seeley: Husband's like this is her car like. So at 1 point I got really upset, and I was like, I'm just done. And I walked out, and my husband's like you just lost business. And the guy called us back in.

Jeri Seeley: I ended up walking out 3 times on this guy because he just didn't get it. He! He just didn't get it, and then

Richard Lowe: Right.

Jeri Seeley: You know I was like, I'm only taking the car if you give it to me at this price on this term, and with this down, and he's like, Well, I don't know if I can do that, I'm like. Well, then, again, I'm going to leave, and I'm going to go. Give my business to somebody else. I did walk out with a car.

Jeri Seeley: He didn't make anything on the deal, I don't think, and you know I went back to him one more time. He was unbelievably nice. The next time

Richard Lowe: You probably got chewed out.

Richard Lowe: What you run into there, and you can play this to your advantage is a sunk cost fallacy.

Richard Lowe: They've all they they depend on it for you. So you've talked to them for an hour or 2 or 3 h. You've got a sunk cost there, and you might say. Well, I've already done this much. I might as well just continue with the process

Richard Lowe: But it goes in reverse. He's already spent 5, 6 h in this process. He now has this on cost

Jeri Seeley: Yeah. And he's gonna say.

Richard Lowe: I need to continue. I need to get this deal

Richard Lowe: because I've already spent 5 or 6 h on it, and my boss is going to hate it if I don't get the deal that's sunk, cost. What really should happen is you should give up.

Richard Lowe: and I run into it over and over and over from bosses and things where? Well, we have to finish this project because we've already invested a million dollars in it. Yeah. But the project's stupid and we're failing. Well, no, but that that's okay. But we finished, we've invested a million dollars. Okay, so we're gonna invest another 1 million before you decide that the project stupid, and we're gonna stop. Which is what happened. And

Richard Lowe: that's called the Sun Cross Fallacy. I love. I've written books about fallacies, and I just love

Richard Lowe: looking up for logical fallacy. Straw man. Fallacy is a great one to find you find in politics all the time.

Jeri Seeley: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: You know what straw man is

Jeri Seeley: I've heard of it. I don't really know too much about it.

Richard Lowe: That's where you're in a debate with somebody. You're talking to them, and they set up a straw man, a weak opponent.

Richard Lowe: They. They then attack that instead of the instead of the argument. So they're attacking.

Richard Lowe: you know. They're talking. You're talking about

Jeri Seeley: Oh, Tesla.

Jeri Seeley: oh, yeah, no, I understand that concept. Yes, so I don't know much about it. But yes, I can see in politics that that being a huge

Jeri Seeley: oh, yeah, yeah.

Richard Lowe: Yeah, you're talking about a thing. And you say, Well, what what about global warming?

Richard Lowe: And it has nothing to do what you're talking about. You know you're talking about car or something. Well, you know how that then. Now you're talking about global warming. You're not talking about

Richard Lowe: the the problem that you were talking about. That's a straw man, and

Richard Lowe: you know you you it gets you off track and get you somewhere else.

Richard Lowe: Strawman fallacy is really hard to spot sometimes.

Richard Lowe: and you just got to watch out for it. It's a diversion.

Richard Lowe: and I love. There's there's a couple 100 different kinds of fallacies, and I just love them. I attended a course. It's on one of those audio course things, and they went through.

Richard Lowe: There was a whole Himalayan expedition, one of the early ones, and everybody died

Richard Lowe: on it, and they went through each person, and which fallacy caused him to die.

Richard Lowe: And it was very interesting

Richard Lowe: that one, you know. Some cost came in because they'd already got halfway, but there and and then there were other ones, dozens of other ones.

Richard Lowe: It was a fascinating exercise

Richard Lowe: And I've gone through speeches and said, Okay, let's remove all the fallacies. And and you know, emotional stuff that has nothing to do with anything and see if there's anything left. There was nothing left

Jeri Seeley: So you said you've written some books on this as well

Richard Lowe: Yes.

Jeri Seeley: Or where the books had chapters about it. Yeah, okay.

Richard Lowe: Not books about it per se, but included it

Jeri Seeley: That's interesting.

Richard Lowe: It's a big subject. It could actually be a book on it. I'm sure there are. But

Richard Lowe: Tons of examples of it. Fallacies are, and leaders fall into it all the time. Sunk. Cost is a big one, but there are others.

Richard Lowe: There are lots of others, you know. You could be biased. The authority bias is a big one.

Richard Lowe: Authority bias is where you do something because of the authority tells you to. Why do we buy shoes that Michael Jordan says are great.

Richard Lowe: Michael Jordan is an authority to us, so we buy shoes. He doesn't make shoes. He doesn't know squat about shoes.

Richard Lowe: He just his name anytime. You see, a celebrity

Richard Lowe: promoting something. It's it's authority bias

Jeri Seeley: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: Or you know, Biden said, to do this. So I'm going to go do it. Well, that's an authority bias. It doesn't say that that's a good decision.

Jeri Seeley: Right.

Richard Lowe: They're all

Jeri Seeley: Like when your mom, when you were a kid, your mom said, Well, if everybody jumps off a cliff, are you going to be the next one to jump.

Richard Lowe: Right right

Richard Lowe: like a lemming. My mom always used to say, like a lemming, and I took me years to figure out what a lemming was some kind of animal

Richard Lowe: my dad used to tell me. Don't be a smart ass, and he used to confuse the hell out of me because my definition of smart was intelligent. So you're telling me to be stupid.

Richard Lowe: And I actually didn't clear that up till I was an adult

Jeri Seeley: Okay, I learned what a smart ass was. Very early on I came from a long line of smart asses, so

Richard Lowe: Well, I quickly learned not to do it, because I used to get hit like with a 2 by 4 kind of hit. You know my dad was had anger management issues. But

Richard Lowe: So I learned, okay, whatever smart as means. I'm just not gonna do it.

Richard Lowe: But it took me a while to figure out he wasn't referring to intelligence. He was referring to

Richard Lowe: a sarcasm

Jeri Seeley: Sm, yeah.

Richard Lowe: Biting sarcasm.

Jeri Seeley: Yeah, smartass is not usually has like a

Jeri Seeley: a negative tone with it. It's not just a you know, a joking comment that there is a little bit of a jab or a negativity with it.

Richard Lowe: An occasional smart, Alecky remark is fine

Richard Lowe: But being a smartass usually means a person is has

Richard Lowe: control issues. To put it mildly.

Richard Lowe: yeah, a narcissist could be a smart ass, a psychotic.

Richard Lowe: They're they're usually covert

Richard Lowe: My dad used to tease my mom all the time about how she he found her on the street

Jeri Seeley: It's like.

Richard Lowe: What? And I would they have a family there, you know, for Thanksgiving. Yeah. And it's like.

Richard Lowe: What are you talking about, Dad? This is, Mom, this is your wife.

Richard Lowe: It was a smart ass remark.

Richard Lowe: and if it had been me in her shoes I would have clobbered him

Jeri Seeley: How did she handle that

Richard Lowe: Ignored it.

Jeri Seeley: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: And that. That's that's the defense mechanism. You ignore it.

Richard Lowe: Yeah, you learn to ignore it.

Jeri Seeley: I do feel like that's also like like my grandparents were a lot like that, like my grandpa would make smart ass comments to my grandma, and she would ignore a lot of it. Only every once in a while would she get to a point where she, you know.

Jeri Seeley: yelled at him to stop

Richard Lowe: Passive, aggressive. It's a passive, aggressive attack, and you you learn to ignore it. But your unconscious doesn't ignore it.

Jeri Seeley: Right.

Richard Lowe: It. It builds up, anyway. Kind of off leadership there.

Richard Lowe: But it's okay. These things tend to do that.

Jeri Seeley: They kind of go all over the place

Richard Lowe: You said, you have 2 kids. I'm sure you came up with leadership issues as a family

Jeri Seeley: Oh, yeah, you know, it was an interesting dynamic.

Jeri Seeley: daughters, they're 5 years apart. You know. And and and you can have 2 kids that have the same parents, and they are worlds apart, personality. And and you know just

Jeri Seeley: everything. Our oldest daughter, you know, kind of rebelled with school.

Jeri Seeley: she has a different learning style. Our youngest one was great in school, played sports. Oldest one was amazing in sports, just never really wanted to do like the school stuff. That was our fight with her, the youngest one. We didn't really have too many fights. I don't know if she just watched the struggles that we had with her older sister. But you know we had more struggles with her

Jeri Seeley: doing some of her sports where she'd be like, I don't want to go today, and it's like, No, no, you're you're going. You committed to this like that. You've committed to this. This is your responsibility. You're going to now do this. So those were our struggles with her, but it was just understanding their communication style, too. You know

Jeri Seeley: what

Jeri Seeley: what worked for one didn't necessarily work for the other, and the way you talk to them or handled it, or tried to teach them even

Richard Lowe: Sure it's worse than that. We'll work for one today probably doesn't work tomorrow.

Jeri Seeley: Oh, oh, that! Yes, that is also a big, big thing, you know, and it's funny, like my oldest one. She thanks me now when she was in in middle school. She was so bad with her writing, and it was one of the

Jeri Seeley: hardest struggles that I had with her as a parent, you know. Just the tears, the fighting, the you know this is necessary, and I was like, you're doing it. And you know she had summer school 2 summers in a row just to get ahead. You know she had the summer off from her, I guess they call it. What is it?

Jeri Seeley: Not like an English class, but they call it something else in middle school. Here we put her in summer school just so that she didn't have that summer break, to like, lose focus and have to like Restart back over. And then she was not doing well, and I decided that I was going to give her my own projects to work on. So she had to read a book, watch a movie.

Jeri Seeley: write a paper on the book, write a paper on the movie and then write a compare and contrast paper for me on the book versus the movie. By the end of the summer we did to kill a mockingbird. That was the one that we chose

Richard Lowe: Tough one. It's a tough one.

Jeri Seeley: It was, you know, she never got below a B in any of her writing courses after that.

Jeri Seeley: After that she was like, I appreciate it. She's like you reading to me all day long, and I'm like I did. But

Jeri Seeley: she's a strong writer now. She has great grammar. She is able to put herself out on paper and and do it well.

Richard Lowe: I did that with Lord of the Rings. The whole trilogy, the differences between the movie and the book, which are dramatic.

Richard Lowe: especially as it gets further along they're very, very different movie. The movie is more of an action adventure, and the book is more of a drama. And

Richard Lowe: it was a good decision they made to change it because the drama would have been boring.

Richard Lowe: But the the movie definitely has a lot of things that the book doesn't, and drops a lot of things that the book does, and some of it's good. And some of it's not. But you know, you have to make those decisions, and I think it came out to be one of the best movies of all time.

Richard Lowe: the trilogy, the whole trilogy. And then the hobbit came out to be one of the worst movies of all time. Same person it was they.

Richard Lowe: you know, they didn't have a script when they wrote the Hobbit. They wrote it as they went

Jeri Seeley: I did not know that

Richard Lowe: Yeah.

Jeri Seeley: I liked. I did not read either Lord of the Rings or the hobbit. I did watch the Lord of the Rings, trilogy, and the hobbit trilogy. I liked Lord of the Rings. It was great. It's not something that I've really gone back to. But it was a great, it was a great movie

Richard Lowe: It is a hard one on a second viewing, it is really tough to watch on the second viewing. I haven't been able to get through it twice

Jeri Seeley: Okay.

Richard Lowe: It's just.

Richard Lowe: It's just guts.

Richard Lowe: you know, all the surprises. I know all the phrases from the book, but it just. I just doesn't appeal to me on the second viewing now on the godfather. On the other hand, I probably watch that 15 times

Jeri Seeley: I love that series. My husband and I actually just watched the godfather. Trilogy

Jeri Seeley: God! When was it? It was like about a year ago. And it was we had just watched. There was a show

Jeri Seeley: called What was it the offer with Miles Teller on one of I want to say, maybe Hbo or Netflix. It was on one of them a streaming channel, and it was about the making of the godfather

Richard Lowe: Right.

Jeri Seeley: He played the producer. So it was kind of like, well, we watched that, and we're like we haven't watched the trilogy in like forever. So we watched the offer, and then we rewatched the trilogy, which was kind of fun

Richard Lowe: The last one of the trilogy is just awful, but the I think the 1st one is very, very strong. The second one is.

Richard Lowe: it's okay. And the 3rd one is just unwatchable to me. Mostly because the

Richard Lowe: choices they made for act. 1st of all, the story is just awful. I don't even get the story.

Richard Lowe: I've watched it several times, and I still don't get the story.

Richard Lowe: And the actress. I think that was

Richard Lowe: the producer's wife, or something, or daughter.

Richard Lowe: the one who got shot at the end

Jeri Seeley: Let's do it.

Richard Lowe: Yeah. So she was in there for for

Richard Lowe: family reasons, and she could. She couldn't act

Jeri Seeley: That's happened in a handful of movies

Richard Lowe: Oh, no way, I'm a movie buff. I got thousands of movies on blu-ray in the back and

Richard Lowe: godfather's in my top. Lord of the rings in my top.

Richard Lowe: The expanse is a great series on TV. If you ever, if you're into Science Fiction

Jeri Seeley: I'm not really big science fiction

Richard Lowe: It gets into the politics of it. It's

Richard Lowe: The universe is. The universe is. The solar system is fully diverse to the point where they don't care. It's not like they're delivering a message about diversity. It's simply part of life. It's the way I think it's diversity done right

Jeri Seeley: There's all different colors and peoples and religions and all kinds of things going on, and nobody even notices. Nobody cares

Richard Lowe: If you if you sit back and you look at wow! That was really diverse. And and you know there's

Richard Lowe: everybody's equal or not equal. Because there's the the Belters

Richard Lowe: people who work in the Asteroid Belt. They're definitely not equal.

Richard Lowe: And it's a it's the politics make it fascinating.

Richard Lowe: The 1st 2 episodes I tended to I tend. I've watched it probably 10 times. I tend to fast forward.

Richard Lowe: The 3rd episode is where it really starts getting interesting.

Jeri Seeley: Okay. So it takes a couple episodes to really get it and understand the characters before you can really get it in to the investment of the show.

Richard Lowe: Have to set up the the universe

Jeri Seeley: Okay.

Richard Lowe: Understand the characters you get to understand the universe. You get to understand what the heck's going on. And and they they do things like they show how

Richard Lowe: things spin for gravity, and how it would actually be there. The water like curves when you pour it into a cup. It's really interesting. They have all the little details.

Richard Lowe: so it's fascinating to watch. I don't know if you'd like it or not, but

Jeri Seeley: What's it called again

Richard Lowe: The expanse

Jeri Seeley: He expands. Okay.

Richard Lowe: It's on one of the streaming channels. I'm sure it's on streaming somewhere.

Richard Lowe: It's on Blu-ray. If you can't find it. I don't know if you have blu-ray anymore

Jeri Seeley: We have gone completely streaming. I've been an apple TV streaming viewer for about the last 5 or 6 years. I don't watch regular TV for the most part, and most of the streaming apps that I have. I've gone to a point where they don't even play commercials

Richard Lowe: I recently discovered that Dvds suffer from what's called disc rot.

Richard Lowe: and a lot of them have become unreadable.

Richard Lowe: especially Warner and Warner's. Warner's 1 of the big ones

Jeri Seeley: Okay.

Richard Lowe: Like all of the all of the series, like er and those kind of things the older series by our Warner, and they're all riding away. They don't. They simply don't play anymore.

Jeri Seeley: Oh, that's a bummer, is it? Just the quality of the the material, is it?

Richard Lowe: It's

Jeri Seeley: The the player, or both.

Richard Lowe: It's it has to do with the glue that they use. That was somehow contaminated for a couple of years.

Richard Lowe: And it's simply the the disks are dying.

Richard Lowe: and it's just the way it is. And so all those movies that I bought that are supposed to last forever aren't the blu-rays don't seem to have that problem anywhere near as much. But the Dvds definitely do

Jeri Seeley: Okay, I still have some blu-rays. We don't use it. We don't watch it. Nearly. I think I think 75% or 80% of the movies that we have on blu-ray. We actually have, like purchased on apple now. So we can watch them digital

Richard Lowe: Yeah, I've got them on voodoo, or I think it's called fantango. Now change their name

Richard Lowe: Yeah, you mentioned you were. You were changing subject you mentioned you were doing a rebranding now

Richard Lowe: just something I find fascinating because I'm in the middle of it, too, because last couple of months have been real slow. So I said, Oh, well, you know, I might as well Rebrand, while I'm waiting for working on business coming in, and and you went through the same process. It sounds like

Jeri Seeley: Yeah. You know, rebranding it. It just kind of made sense right now, you know, things are are kind of slow. I've taken a look at you know. What? What do I want with my next step? You know. Where do I want to go? What do I want to do over the next 1, 2 and 5 years, you know, and then from there I have.

Jeri Seeley: You know I left the industry of work. You know the the hospitality industry, distilling industries. A few years ago I was already working on the wayfaring epicure which is my own company, doing

Jeri Seeley: a lot of a lot of different things, a lot of hospitality related things, you know, planning trips, planning dinners, planning tastings, planning, you know, comparings.

Jeri Seeley: parties, a lot of just different things that are all kind of hospitality related. But what did I really want to do, you know? And taking everything that I've done for the last 30 years and saying, Okay, I think this is what I want to do. And I want to put everything together. You know, I'm working on a couple of books I'm working on.

Jeri Seeley: You know my social media. I'm working on a website. And I have a new name, you know. So I'm kind of going to roll everything out like a little bit at the same time, like, you know, at least

Richard Lowe: Good.

Jeri Seeley: And so

Richard Lowe: Yeah, yeah, I'm doing the same thing.

Richard Lowe: just just putting my brand together. So it's it's the same across all platforms, because it was kind of chaotic, and now it's not

Richard Lowe: putting in SEO in places where it makes sense and fixing some of the the content. It was a long process. I started in about November, and because I hired a marketing company at the same time. So they're taking care of the basics. So I don't have to worry about them. They're doing lead Gen and stuff like that.

Richard Lowe: So it's actually working pretty well, this, this podcast is part of that.

Richard Lowe: I'm looking for leaders, people who might want to book.

Richard Lowe: And one way to do that is to build up a reputation as a leader.

Richard Lowe: And this podcast helps with that. By the way, I'm also running a a weekly. What do you call roundtable?

Jeri Seeley: Oh, yeah.

Richard Lowe: That you'll be invited to because you're on this, podcast that

Richard Lowe: you don't have to come every week. But you get on there, and we just throw ideas back and forth. I'll probably start off with a theme for each one, and then we just tear it apart, or do whatever comes natural

Richard Lowe: for an hour. Yeah, and have some fun and

Richard Lowe: and I'll send you an invite. It'll be a Zoom Meeting, not not Riverside.

Jeri Seeley: So that we know that we're all gonna be there

Richard Lowe: So we know that it works. Yeah, yeah, we have some problems with Riverside, and I'll probably have to write it up. If I could figure out what the problem is enough to write it up to them.

Richard Lowe: In other words, is it my problem or theirs? I don't know. You know.

Jeri Seeley: It. It is hard, I, you know, but for for you and I both to be in, I would say that it's probably a their problem. You sent the right link. I clicked the right link. I don't think that that was a really a you problem.

Richard Lowe: I don't think so either. I think it has trouble hooking up

Richard Lowe: you, you, the 2 links. What I think they should do is have a different link for every show, every project. It's this, it's the same link now for every project, and it figures it out. I don't know how it does it, but it does it wrong sometimes

Jeri Seeley: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: And they didn't. They need. I need to tell them that. But I'll get around to it. Maybe

Richard Lowe: what I was.

Richard Lowe: Personal leadership is another thing where you're leading yourself. Something people often miss, but without you there is nothing

Richard Lowe: right. I mean, you have to. You have to have have your own self control and your own ethics and things

Jeri Seeley: Own accountability.

Richard Lowe: Your own accountability. One of the things when my wife passed away, I decided was.

Richard Lowe: okay. 1st of all, I don't like grief.

Richard Lowe: not a good place to be. Grief is not a friend, and second of all, I'm I was super super super shy.

Richard Lowe: Couldn't have done this.

Richard Lowe: You can't tell now. But what I did is I picked up the camera

Richard Lowe: and I photographed national parks. I photographed all of them in the Southwest. Us.

Richard Lowe: Photographed all the State parks went to Renaissance fairs and ran into dancers, belly dancers at Renaissance fairs, and the ones that are all dressed in the head to toe

Jeri Seeley: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: Medieval Moroccan garb.

Richard Lowe: and they several of them introduced me to other dancers, and before you knew it I was the the photographer to come to because I was in their words, not creepy

Jeri Seeley: That's a big deal

Richard Lowe: It is a big deal. Apparently. There are creepy photographers, and I've met a few, and they like they even creep me out, you know, and it's like dude that was totally unprofessional, you know.

Richard Lowe: and some of the women photographers. Same thing, you know. Just

Richard Lowe: come on, you know, be an adult and act like a person

Jeri Seeley: Right.

Richard Lowe: So I photograph, I did 1,200 shows and photographed several 100 photo shoots and

Richard Lowe: lots of things like wwe matches and things, and before long I didn't need the camera anymore. And I was the shyness disappeared. One of the things that came out of that is, I threw a birthday party every year for 8 years the dancers I've given their photos for free.

Richard Lowe: So they threw a birthday party for me every year, and I I rented a space and I catered.

Richard Lowe: and I made sure there was always a place for them to change. That was private.

Richard Lowe: and I made sure that they were catered with good ethnic food. Usually it was another dancer who cooked.

Richard Lowe: and they would they would. They did it as a side gig. They would

Richard Lowe: bring in food. So we had Turkish food from the Turkish dancer, and we had Armenian food from the Median dancer. It was quite interesting. And always made sure there's plenty of food for the for the staff.

Richard Lowe: You know the the people who work the desk and

Jeri Seeley: People forget that. That's really important.

Richard Lowe: Always had security in case we had problems. And we did. You know there were. There were people who wandered in who didn't, shouldn't be there, and they got escorted out by a big guy, you know.

Richard Lowe: and insurance, of course.

Richard Lowe: And it was quite interesting having

Richard Lowe: 200 dancers come to a hall dance for me, bringing their

Richard Lowe: really bored husbands along because they definitely the husbands had seen the same move 50,000 times. And they're like, Okay, we're just here because she's here. And you know it was fun.

Richard Lowe: and I'm sure they had some kind of fun. But I had fun.

Richard Lowe: and I learned a lot about dealing with

Richard Lowe: people of all kinds, because dancers, these dancers there, there were some that were.

Richard Lowe: you know, 5 foot tall and 300 pounds, and there were some that were skinny as a rail, and there were some that were Goth like real Goth, not the Wannabe Goths. And then there were some that were

Richard Lowe: just what you would call normal, and there were different ethnicities and different cultures.

Richard Lowe: and everybody was just dancing and having a good time.

Richard Lowe: and it taught me a lot about, hey? You know you can drop all the rhetoric and crap about

Richard Lowe: culture, wars and things, and just be with each other

Jeri Seeley: Don't know

Richard Lowe: And you'll have a good time.

Richard Lowe: and you'll learn something. I learned a lot of things.

Richard Lowe: I learned what Turkish food is made of.

Richard Lowe: It's like sausage sometimes. You don't wanna know

Jeri Seeley: I can say the same thing about Swedish food

Richard Lowe: Definitely.

Jeri Seeley: Or

Richard Lowe: Blood sausage like. I don't even want to know what that's made of.

Jeri Seeley: Yeah, I was really disappointed. Like growing up. You know our Swedish heritage. I am Swedish, and I was like, you know, Swedish pancakes are amazing. They're they're kind of like a cross between a regular pancake and a crepe. They're somewhere like right in the middle.

Jeri Seeley: you know, Lingda, Mary Jam is great.

Jeri Seeley: Swedish meatballs are great. Have all these recipes from family, and then I'm like, Well, I want to learn more. I want to know more. I started looking. And I'm like, Oh, my God, our culture and our cuisine. It's not like the like. There's a lot of pickled fish there's a lot of I'm like, Okay, good

Richard Lowe: Yeah, one of my. One of my bucket list items is attending is going to the Ice Hotel in Sweden. That's 1 of them. Then there's the Underwater Hotel in Fiji

Jeri Seeley: I've seen that one. It looks beautiful

Richard Lowe: And there's a there's a tree house for hotel in Brazil.

Jeri Seeley: You know there are some treehouse hotels and treehouse cabins that you can rent right here in the United States that are a couple like in Georgia, and stuff so not too far from you.

Richard Lowe: Yes.

Richard Lowe: and one of the reasons why I want to do these is because I have the normal phobia that people normally have. I'm afraid of heights every couple of years I go up in a hot air balloon.

Richard Lowe: and here I'm 3,000 feet over the ground, with a piece of plywood about this thick under my feet

Richard Lowe: and

Richard Lowe: terrified, but I confronted it, afraid of small spaces. So every few years I go down in a cave spelunking with the guide.

Richard Lowe: It's called spelunking. You go crawling through caves. The interesting thing is, it actually has 2 phobias you're hanging on a ladder that's swinging in the air, climbing down 200 feet that you can't see anything, and creepy critters are crawling all over you.

Jeri Seeley: Yeah, I think I'd pass on that one

Richard Lowe: It's

Richard Lowe: it. It confronts a lot of things at once. It's not something I do very often, but it is fun.

Richard Lowe: So I believe in confronting things, but not to an extreme. Yeah, I don't need to get on a paraglider and go paragliding, you know. I mean, that's let somebody else do that.

Jeri Seeley: Yeah, those are things my husband is like wanting to do and and try out. And I'm like, I love you. I'm here for you. I'm your support team, but I will be on the ground when you are. You know

Richard Lowe: I'm a bit of a wuss in that area, and that I don't like paying that much.

Richard Lowe: There's no pain associated with going up in a hot air balloon. There's perceived pain

Jeri Seeley: He knows

Richard Lowe: But there is no pain, so I think that part of leadership is being able to get out of your box

Richard Lowe: And that's that's where that was going. That was a long-winded way to get there. But just to get out of your box, and I've been finding lately

Richard Lowe: that I have more box than I thought

Jeri Seeley: Really.

Richard Lowe: Yeah, just we all do. I think just things like.

Jeri Seeley: I definitely do. I? I know I definitely do. The older I get, the more I realize it

Richard Lowe: Yeah. Well, wait till you get even older. It it it. The box becomes very solid, and

Richard Lowe: I have trouble traveling now, because I don't want to, Coronavirus. I blame Coronavirus

Jeri Seeley: There's, you know. It's funny. I feel like there's a period of time in your life where.

Jeri Seeley: at least for me. Anyway, I was in my box. You know. I didn't want to try things. I was scared, and then there was a period of time where I felt no fear. I was ready to do and try anything at any given time. It didn't matter what it was.

Jeri Seeley: The older I get. I'm seeing that, you know. Some of those things are like I'm back inside and like, you know, I don't know if I want to quite do that, or you know a little bit of that fear of like, you know. I just don't think that I need to take that risk right now has kind of like crept back in

Richard Lowe: That happens, the older you get, the more ossified you get

Jeri Seeley: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: I think, and

Richard Lowe: I think that that's a spiral towards the end. And I I've been unossifying myself. I love the word ossify and trying to do more things, especially in the business area.

Richard Lowe: So taking on like taking on this, this, leadership podcast is something that I would never have considered years ago, or or I mean, I'm doing 2 a day.

Richard Lowe: Oh, that's great. This is a lot. Yeah, thank God for AI, you know it's helping me a lot.

Richard Lowe: yeah, that's 1 of the things AI is really good for is a digital assistant. Just just give it stuff to do, and it'll do it, for you don't have it right, for you don't have it. Make.

Richard Lowe: you know creative stuff. Just have it do the stuff you'd hire Va for

Jeri Seeley: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: And and hire a Va for some things, because you want a human touch.

Richard Lowe: Yeah, it's it's interesting. And

Richard Lowe: oh, my, my, very. I did have a leadership

Richard Lowe: thing. When I was younger I was 17 years old. I managed a liquor store. I was night manager

Richard Lowe: now in California. You can do that because it's closed. The liquor bottles are not open.

Richard Lowe: So as night manager in a liquor store in Lake Arrowhead, a tourist town.

Richard Lowe: and my boss, you'll love. This

Richard Lowe: was a World War Ii Nazi submarine commander.

Richard Lowe: He actually sunk American ships got up on the surface.

Richard Lowe: put the machine guns in and shot any American he could find, or Britt, or whoever

Richard Lowe: and he was quite broken up about it, usually of

Jeri Seeley: How did I? How did he actually end up here

Richard Lowe: Operation paperclip brought in a whole pile 80,000 Germans who had some value to the Us.

Richard Lowe: Because I think it was a CIA, or whatever the predecessor to CIA's operation to bring Germans over here, so Russia wouldn't get them.

Richard Lowe: And

Richard Lowe: we got a lot of scientists and things, and we got a person who owned a liquor store. Good old Mr. Gandkin and I was there for 2 years, and I was the only employee who lasted more than a month.

Richard Lowe: and I asked him shortly before I left.

Richard Lowe: why did I last 2 years? And he said, Because you're competent and I like competence. You're a bit of a smart ass. You're a little arrogant. You don't always follow direction, but you're competent

Richard Lowe: and competent trumps. Everything

Jeri Seeley: Especially today

Richard Lowe: Yeah, and hate to use the word trumps there. But you know it's a different meaning

Jeri Seeley: It is a different meaning. Yeah, I've

Jeri Seeley: you know, like I said, I have a beautiful story of a girl that I helped and I know, like she's still successful. I was broken down by one of my bosses, you know. She was not a leader. She was a boss, and

Jeri Seeley: she was horrible.

Jeri Seeley: I I to this day, if there was anybody that I'm like, I would never want to do anything the way a boss did it. She would be my example, you know. She would yell about things, tell you you couldn't do something, and then you'd see her the next day doing the same thing that

Richard Lowe: Of course, of course.

Jeri Seeley: Just, you know, just awful and and pit employee against employee. You know, just so that she, like people, would walk in the room and be uneasy like that. That's not. That's not good management. That's not being a good boss. That's not being a good leader.

Richard Lowe: That's that's a bit of narcissism. I guess I'm not a psychologist, thank God, yeah. Every once in a while I get a book, and I have to. I got a couple of books where they were very intense books

Richard Lowe: about very bad subjects, where people were caught in bad situations, and both those cases

Richard Lowe: I had to tell him. I'm not your therapist. I'm a ghostwriter. I write the book for you. We're not we. We need to stop, or we get into a therapy session, and both of them couldn't continue with the book after a while, because they really needed a therapist and

Jeri Seeley: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: Now, and they thought writing a book would help.

Richard Lowe: and it didn't, because it's not therapy

Richard Lowe: So that that was fascinating.

Jeri Seeley: They really needed to be more journaling than than writing a book and seeking somebody to help with that journaling

Richard Lowe: Yeah, I mean they they came out of situations that I can't even imagine how bad it was.

Richard Lowe: I mean, being one of them was sold into slavery by her parents when she was 14. Guess what kind of slavery and

Jeri Seeley: Yeah, I can. Yeah.

Richard Lowe: And she got out of it. When her Christian her, she found a Christian man who later became her husband, who got her out of the business

Richard Lowe: and took her off drugs.

Richard Lowe: God had been hard, and now she has 5 kids, and his Christian is doing great or last. I talked to her

Jeri Seeley: And not all stories turn out that. Well.

Richard Lowe: She couldn't. She couldn't continue the book.

Richard Lowe: So what do you do? You know it happens

Richard Lowe: Yeah, yeah, life is interesting. And I think the key is leader or not. Well, I mean, you're at least a leader of yourself.

Jeri Seeley: You have to be

Richard Lowe: Is to learn from your mistakes. Learn from your successes. Everybody says, learn from failure. Also learn from your successes.

Richard Lowe: Gotta learn from both

Richard Lowe: And move forward rather than backwards

Jeri Seeley: I always moving forward, always finding the

Jeri Seeley: the lesson out of whether it is a success or a failure, I think, is important. I think you know staying.

Jeri Seeley: I don't want to use the word humble, but to some extent humble. You know, no matter how big, or

Jeri Seeley: your success or your failure is, I mean, I've seen people fail and still boast and and be horrible. And it's like, Yeah.

Jeri Seeley: it's really not a good look on on anybody.

Richard Lowe: One thing I know this is this is a good thing to start to wrap up on is.

Richard Lowe: if you're alive. That means you've succeeded more than you failed.

Jeri Seeley: I've never looked at it that way. I like that

Richard Lowe: Because if you fail, you fail too much, you die.

Richard Lowe: So I mean, some people are really in bad straits, and that means they're failing. And they're they're failing, probably failing more than they're succeeding.

Richard Lowe: And that's really the difference between somebody who's a success and somebody who isn't is somebody whose success has succeeded more.

Richard Lowe: and somebody was a failure.

Richard Lowe: you know, living on the street, or whatever they failed more than they succeeded, for whatever reason.

Richard Lowe: whether that's somebody else, or whether that's their own doing, or whether that's drugs or whatever they failed

Jeri Seeley: Or they've given up

Richard Lowe: Right, which is a kind of failure

Jeri Seeley: It is a. It is a failure. Giving up is a failure.

Jeri Seeley: Yeah, giving up on yourself. You're giving up on opportunity. You're giving up. You're giving up on a lot

Richard Lowe: Yep. And the thing to remember is, there's there's people around

Richard Lowe: you build that social network. One thing I'm learning because I tend to be introverted. I mean, I stay here all day and write books and talk to people on the on zoom is that the social network is by far the most important thing in life besides eating and stuff.

Richard Lowe: I mean, it's got to be right up there on the Maswick scale. Of necessity. I haven't looked

Richard Lowe: having a solid social network of people. You can talk to people. You can lean on people who will help people. You can help

Richard Lowe: trumps. Everything except for the basic necessities of eating and drinking and breathing.

Jeri Seeley: Well, and that's where the hospitality industry comes in. The socialization, sitting at the bar, sitting at tables, meeting people that are

Jeri Seeley: the same places that you're frequenting the good food, the drink, the the libations, the music. It's all, you know, a mixing pot of

Jeri Seeley: of a good good environment.

Richard Lowe: Yeah, I remember the

Richard Lowe: scared that I was at the Renaissance Fair. My! And I was photographing the belly dancers, and I sat in the back row with my telephoto lens.

Richard Lowe: and this lady, named Marjani

Richard Lowe: comes up to me, and Marjani had piercings. She has tattoos on her arm that she did herself and she

Richard Lowe: At the time I was much more conservative, and she was the scariest thing that I'd ever seen at that time, and she was coming towards me.

Richard Lowe: and she sits beside me, and I'm like, Oh, my God! You know, and she puts her arm around me, and she says, Richard, we really, really like your photos? We think that you're a great person. You need to sit in the front row

Richard Lowe: 1st of all, because we think you're an honored guest, and second of all, the creepy photographers in the back. We don't think you're creepy, so you need to sit up front, and we became pretty dear friends, and I learned at that point that

Richard Lowe: tattoos and piercing, so matter of fact, I got a bunch of tattoos now

Jeri Seeley: I'm pretty loaded up with tattoos. I find that some of my favorite people that I've ever come across in life, and some of the most real and genuine people that I've come across in life have

Jeri Seeley: trucker sailor mouths full of tattoos, you know, and are just, you know, misunderstood or misrepresented, or people just look at them and disregard before they ever get to know them. So

Richard Lowe: Well, the dancers that I was hanging out with and photographing are generally up a lot of tattoos.

Richard Lowe: so I just kind of fell with the group, and when I turned 50 got a bunch of tattoos, and my tattoo artist was named Zulu, and he's 1 of the best in the world.

Richard Lowe: Beverly Hills. $250 an hour. And he said, okay, I think I know you, and I'm going to wait. Make you wait 6 months before I give you the tattoo, because if you still want it in 6 months, then you want it.

Richard Lowe: But you're stuck with it.

Jeri Seeley: I love that

Richard Lowe: And I did want it. And you know I've always thanked him for that great guy awesome guy and I photographed him a lot because he had this.

Richard Lowe: this persona that just photographed well.

Richard Lowe: and he's super nice. And and yeah, he did. My, and I brought an Indian dancer along. Dancer. I'm probably mispronouncing that he's the one with the the ones with the bells on the legs and stuff

Jeri Seeley: Okay, yeah, that that's some that's some real muscular exercise like that's talent.

Richard Lowe: Her name is Martavi, and she she was taught by a classic, by classical dancers and by a master. She called it a master. Her job when she came to the tattoo artist with me was to laugh every time I screamed in pain. That's what I told her.

Richard Lowe: She laughed a lot

Jeri Seeley: But it took the edge off.

Jeri Seeley: Okay.

Jeri Seeley: so I just have to like sidetrack back to you, said the woman. Did her own tattoos on her arm.

Richard Lowe: Yeah, on the

Jeri Seeley: That is amazing. The fact that she did her own tattoos on her arm and they turned out amazing. I'm assuming

Richard Lowe: I would say that they're they're okay. They're they're not fantastic, but they're okay.

Jeri Seeley: Okay. Well, that still is something to be said, because that is, that is a feat that I couldn't imagine doing. And I will say I. I have some tattoos in a lot of spots, but I think my underarm

Richard Lowe: Oh, that's the worst

Jeri Seeley: The hardest spot for me when I was getting tattoos. It was the only time, and the gentleman that did my tattoos. He's done all of my tattoos. I think it was the only time I was like I got to tap out, and he's like, Give me 10 more minutes, and I'm like, you have like 9.

Jeri Seeley: And just as I was like, Okay, you have to stop. He's like I'm done. I'm like, Oh, thank you. That that was by far the worst spot that I'd I'd had any

Richard Lowe: I got 2 snakes and they they both go through under the arms. Here my tattoo artist started. He says this is gonna hurt, I said, That's fine. And then

Richard Lowe: said, No, no, it's really gonna hurt, and he says, if you want to tap out anytime, that's fine, I'll understand. I won't think of you less of a man. And so he did it. And I was like, I'm I'm not gonna stop. And that was probably as close to stopping as like cause it's you know how it is. It's cut their their color and they're shaded. It's over and over and over and over those. It's like, Wow.

Jeri Seeley: Well, in this particular spot he had a needle that had like 5, and he was like dragging it for yeah, it was just. It was a. It was a rough afternoon.

Richard Lowe: Yeah. And then, of course, it's just to know the pain that happens, and then it tones down, and then it becomes endless itching.

Richard Lowe: and you can't scratch it.

Jeri Seeley: You can't scratch it.

Richard Lowe: You gotta do this.

Jeri Seeley: Nice it was. Yeah, the padding, I will say it was nice, the the some of the tattoos they healed very quickly, you know, use the tattoo goo. But instead of like putting big things over it, he just had this like little wrap that went on it almost looked like Saran Wrap, but it

Richard Lowe: Mine. Did. Yeah.

Jeri Seeley: That, I think, changed the game like from some of my old tattoos to some of the newer ones that that made it a lot less uncomfortable and a lot less itchy

Richard Lowe: Well, one of the reasons why I chose Zulu is because he uses organic inks that don't have metals in them, and he's very, very careful with hygiene. So I wasn't worried about getting hepatitis, like some people say, Oh, I paid $50 for this tattoo. It's like, Yeah, I could tell. And second of all, you know, you're risking hepatitis

Jeri Seeley: Right.

Richard Lowe: At the minimum cause.

Richard Lowe: Don't don't reuse needles, you know.

Jeri Seeley: And find a credible person, you know. Do your research find out what they're good at doing? You know there are

Jeri Seeley: the gentleman that I go to. He's amazing, Trent. He's been doing it for years. You know. I followed him on social media for a while, and then I reached out to him via email, and was like, this is what I'm looking for. And we went back and forth before I ever even went in. And then when I went in. We had a whole, you know, conversation and consultation before I even got any work done. So you know.

Jeri Seeley: whatever you want, I feel like you need to find somebody that like specializes in that particular thing. There are people that specialize in faces, you know, characters color. So it really depends on what you're looking for.

Richard Lowe: And mine are all freehand. They're not. They don't use. He didn't use stencils.

Richard Lowe: so they're they're unique to me.

Jeri Seeley: That's good.

Richard Lowe: And I think I'm in a couple of magazines, because, you know, he he did that for me. Never found them. But I'm sure I'm in a couple.

Richard Lowe: So it's fun. It wasn't fun at the time. That same dancer, Marty. When I moved from California to Florida, she actually said, you're not. You're not driving across the country alone. I'm coming. So she came with me

Jeri Seeley: Oh, nice!

Richard Lowe: And the whole trip, and then

Richard Lowe: stayed a couple days, and then flew home, and then came back on Thanksgiving. She did a show in in Jamaica.

Richard Lowe: So she did a layover here, and she stayed with me for a couple of days over Thanksgiving to teach me what a Vegan Turkey would be.

Richard Lowe: and

Richard Lowe: she said, Yeah, it tastes just like Turkey. My 1st question was, You're a Vegan. How do you know?

Richard Lowe: And my second thought was, it doesn't taste anything like turkey. It tastes like spices

Jeri Seeley: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: And it's it was, you know. It was tolerable. I wouldn't. It's not something I would do again. But it was. It was fine.

Richard Lowe: I did

Jeri Seeley: I I did a I did a luncheon for a business.

Jeri Seeley: and there was a girl that was Vegan

Jeri Seeley: So I she had her own whole meal prepared differently than everybody else, so I did a plant-based corned beef.

Jeri Seeley: I tasted it, and it it flavor. Wise was very similar to the corned beef that I made. But it it just. It's just not the same like it's just not

Richard Lowe: I could get used to it over time. But it's not something that I would choose to go out and like a beyond thing. I'm not gonna choose to eat one of those

Jeri Seeley: Right.

Richard Lowe: It's it's not meat, you know, and it doesn't taste like meat. It doesn't smell like meat. It doesn't have the texture of meat. That's a big deal. The texture

Jeri Seeley: Oh, the 1st time I had! Have you ever had foie gras

Richard Lowe: No.

Jeri Seeley: Okay. So the 1st time I did, I was in Vegas. I was 25

Richard Lowe: So that was last year.

Richard Lowe: Ha, ha!

Jeri Seeley: So, you know, I was with a group of people. I was by far the youngest. I was with my husband, who we were just dating at the time, and, needless to say, everybody thought it was funny to tell me, like to try this. Well, what came out looking like filet

Jeri Seeley: was really pate, so they sliced it like it was filet. I mean, it looked beautiful. I put it in my mouth and was like.

Jeri Seeley: what is this. It took me by surprise. So I I kind of was like turned off by it.

Jeri Seeley: Obviously, years later, you know, understanding and going through culinary school and and trying it again like, but you can't like.

Jeri Seeley: I feel like people need to be told in advance, so that

Richard Lowe: Of course.

Jeri Seeley: Their mind around it. You know, I never like to just spring something on somebody and

Jeri Seeley: expect one thing, and it'd be something completely different, because then then your brain doesn't want to accept what you know, what that flavor is, or what that is

Richard Lowe: Well, I this sounds like my 1st experience with caviar. I'll never eat it again. It's like who would eat this stuff

Richard Lowe: and never eat it again. I've had tried it once, that's all I'm gonna do

Jeri Seeley: Did. Did did they tell you what you were gonna be expecting

Richard Lowe: Oh, I I knew what I was eating. I was

Jeri Seeley: Okay. Okay.

Richard Lowe: There's a fish eggs, but

Richard Lowe: It was not something my palate like. There have been foods that I've eaten, and we probably should dry this up pretty soon. But there have been foods that I've eaten that I've thrown up because they tasted so different.

Richard Lowe: and there was just see some

Richard Lowe: the 1st time my wife cooked for me she made some Guatemalan dishes, and it just didn't. My palate just said Nope.

Jeri Seeley: Just rejected it. It just said.

Richard Lowe: Insulted the hell out of her. She was pissed

Richard Lowe: by the way, her name was Claudia. Not Claudia. If I said Claudia, she'd say, were you dating some other woman.

Richard Lowe: so to say, Cloudier passed away from Sepsis 20 years ago.

Jeri Seeley: Oh, I'm so sorry!

Richard Lowe: Smoking asthma and Copd are not good roommates.

Jeri Seeley: I can't imagine I can't imagine.

Jeri Seeley: I can't imagine. I'm I'm sorry to hear that

Richard Lowe: Went through therapy, you know, right now it's just a memory wasn't for a while. It's 1 of the reasons why I took a photography was to get rid of the grief.

Richard Lowe: I considered her my soulmate. So you know that's a tough one.

Jeri Seeley: That's

Richard Lowe: Lot of counseling. Many, many hours of counseling got over it

Jeri Seeley: As best you can, and you don't always. You never really get over it.

Jeri Seeley: No, when you lose somebody really close to you, it it, it changes you forever.

Richard Lowe: My favorite story is

Richard Lowe: I kept. When we got married I got rid of all pictures of old girlfriends and stuff, but I accidentally kept one. She was a blonde, very, very cute blonde

Richard Lowe: that it had, and she ran across it, of course, because she's went through everything that unbeknownst to me

Jeri Seeley: The wife does

Richard Lowe: As as I found out, a wife does and she said, Who's this? And I said, Well, that's Jackie. And she said, Well.

Richard Lowe: talked a little bit and says, Do you still have feelings? For I'm a man I'm stupid. What did I say?

Richard Lowe: Well, you know, maybe a little bit after that

Richard Lowe: she would not let me talk to a blonde.

Richard Lowe: we would go to the beach, and there would be a brunette in a skimpy Bikini, she said. Look, that's pretty, you know. That's pretty girl Blonde was there.

Richard Lowe: She'd practically tackle me

Richard Lowe: One time I was sitting at a at a table with a vendor. Very cute, lady, and I called up the wife just as a tease said, I'm out with a gorgeous woman right now to lunch, and she's laughing, she says. Is it a blonde? I said. No, brunette, she says. Put her on. She's they had a great conversation, and you're sure you're not blonde.

Richard Lowe: you know. I I did. She didn't have a problem with with that. And then finally, before she was passed away, she she said,

Richard Lowe: you you ever thinking of getting remarried, and I said, probably not. And she said, Well, I want you to be happy, so go ahead and marry a blonde.

Richard Lowe: Oh, like I should have known that it was coming.

Richard Lowe: 3 days later, 3 days later.

Jeri Seeley: Oh!

Richard Lowe: But that she had this thing about blondes, because she found a picture of a blonde

Richard Lowe: that I was stupid enough to say, you know.

Richard Lowe: and I'm like that was a that was a dumb guy thing

Jeri Seeley: Well, you live and you learn. And and it happened to be a story for you, for you know, with your wife for years and years

Richard Lowe: Yeah, there was a lot more of those incidents, but those are the ones that stand out. She was.

Richard Lowe: It was just funny.

Richard Lowe: just funny, and she she had jet black hair Guatemalan, and she decided she was going to be blonde. She didn't know you had to strip your hair first.st

Richard Lowe: So she came out with orange right orange hair.

Richard Lowe: She was so devastated.

Richard Lowe: Me. I have to. I'm trying not to laugh, because it was very funny

Jeri Seeley: It's hard when as a female changing your hair color, I actually

Jeri Seeley: only one time in my life have I been blonde, and I had very long hair. I chopped my hair and went blonde all at the same time.

Jeri Seeley: So it was a big culture shock.

Jeri Seeley: It was fun for a month, and then I was like, Oh, my God! What did I do?

Richard Lowe: Worse!

Jeri Seeley: Take me years to get back to normal.

Jeri Seeley: and it did. It took a few years

Richard Lowe: Or you spend a hell of a lot of money maintaining it

Richard Lowe: because it's I'm sure that it's not cheap staying blonde

Jeri Seeley: No, it was not cheap staying blonde, and you know, unfortunately, the way I cut my hair it grew out there were awkward spots that you couldn't do anything about. I was just like, never again

Richard Lowe: Right.

Jeri Seeley: I tried my blonde era, and that just yep.

Richard Lowe: I,

Jeri Seeley: Just meant to be brunettes

Richard Lowe: I was hired once to be the photographer, one of the photographers for the labyrinth of Girus masquerade ball in Hollywood. It's about 3,000 4,000 people. It's beautiful

Richard Lowe: lots of people dressed in costume, and it's Hollywood. So you get the actors and actresses and stuff.

Richard Lowe: I had 4 tickets, because as a photographer, that's what they paid me tickets. These are expensive tickets. They're a couple 100 to $200 each. So

Richard Lowe: 3 makeup artists said, we want to get in.

Richard Lowe: What will it cost us?

Richard Lowe: We want those tickets. And I said, Make me up as a Goth Dracula type, Goth.

Richard Lowe: So they spent about 3 h, 3 of them, and they they made me into. Imagine me, Goth!

Jeri Seeley: That's gonna take that. You're yeah. That's gonna take some makeup

Richard Lowe: It took a lot of makeup. I had the whole outfit, you know. I rented it, and the whole thing teeth

Richard Lowe: had teeth made that fit. Yeah, and and the whole thing. And I was beautiful. Unfortunately, I neglected to take any pictures.

Richard Lowe: I'm sure there are some, but but so then part of the deal was, they would walk around with me as my acolytes, I guess servants whatever. For for an hour and a half hour or so. So I had these 3

Richard Lowe: gorgeous ladies, one green, you know, on my arm, and everybody's looking at me like Whoa! How are you getting these ladies, and I'm like.

Richard Lowe: I'm thinking it's just the

Richard Lowe: there's nothing here, you know. They're they're just people who wanted tickets. But I'm not saying that

Jeri Seeley: Of course not. Why, why, people, it's part of the show. It's part of part of the

Richard Lowe: It was part of the gig, you know. It's part of the fun, and the girls had a lot of fun with it, and then they went off on their own and did stuff. Who knows?

Richard Lowe: That was that was a fun night. But imagine me, Goth!

Jeri Seeley: Yeah, no, not with the palm tree shirt. Doesn't really like

Richard Lowe: Oh! The

Jeri Seeley: Oh!

Richard Lowe: Yeah, I was in a in a Dracula outfit, of course, but

Richard Lowe: many years ago that was fun. But we, I think, are well over an hour

Jeri Seeley: Yes, I think we are

Richard Lowe: So probably time to wrap it up. If you had to say

Richard Lowe: a couple of sentences to the audience about leadership, how would you wrap this up

Jeri Seeley: Leadership. You know it. It's an important role. And

Jeri Seeley: you know, think about how you would want somebody to be your leader, you know and and mirror that. How do you want somebody to treat you? How would you want to be trained? You know you want to create an environment that is welcoming. And you're you're

Jeri Seeley: whether it's your guests or it's your staff that wants needs to come to you for something they feel comfortable to do so, and know that they can have open conversation.

Jeri Seeley: willing to understand and reciprocate and help whether that means jumping behind a bar to teach them. You know how to speak, whether that's, you know, washing dishes, because somebody called in, and you're going to relieve somebody else. There's a lot of different ways to handle it. But but how would you like to be treated is really kind of the the basic core value. I think, in leadership that really just needs to start. There

Richard Lowe: Do you know that as a side note? Do you know that virtually every leader that you think of that was a military leader? They led from the front

Richard Lowe: Alexander the Great was in the front. Patton was with his troops, all these people with with their troops

Richard Lowe: when they led, and the great leaders that I think of in my life have always been there

Jeri Seeley: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: And the thing that I want from my leader number one thing is respect

Jeri Seeley: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: Because everything goes from that, you don't. And and if you're thinking of yourself, or you're not respecting, you're not a leader

Jeri Seeley: You sweep the floor, or you

Richard Lowe: Yeah.

Jeri Seeley: CEO, you're you're there doing a job, and you're a person

Richard Lowe: Yep, yep, alright. Well, thank you for coming on. This has been a wonderful talk. We kind of went everywhere

Jeri Seeley: We didn't really stay on topic all the time, but it was a lot of fun. It was really nice to talk

Richard Lowe: That's fun.

Richard Lowe: I'll post the whole thing. So this has been the leaders in their stories. Podcast I am Richard, Lowe, the writing king and ghostwriting. Guru, if people wanted to find you, where would they look

Jeri Seeley: You can find me on Facebook. You can also find me on Linkedin. I will be posting very soon the wayfaring up here like I said, we're rebranding, and I will be posting on my Linkedin, my Facebook, and the wayfaring up here where to find me. Once I once I roll everything out

Richard Lowe: And you're in alliances correct.

Jeri Seeley: And I'm what

Richard Lowe: You're in the yeah.

Jeri Seeley: Yeah.

Richard Lowe: Good. Yeah. Alliances is a great group. I'm gonna finish with that. I've been in it for a while and

Richard Lowe: several months now, and I'm finding it very useful.

Jeri Seeley: I'm just starting. That was my 1st my 1st experience, and it was

Richard Lowe: So you went as a guest

Jeri Seeley: I did.

Richard Lowe: Yeah, I think you would do good to to

Richard Lowe: get the membership. I think it's 40 bucks a month, and it would. It's a good investment in time. It takes a little while to get into it.

Richard Lowe: But anyway, so thank you for watching this video and this podcast and appreciate you coming on, and that's about it for tonight

Jeri Seeley: Thank you for having me. You have a great night

Richard Lowe: Don't go away!